Conversation with Rev. Scott McAndless
Summary:
In this crosscast episode of the Ministry Forum Podcast, host Rev. John Borthwick welcomes Rev. W. Scott McAndless, minister and creator of the podcast Retelling the Bible. McAndless shares his unique approach to biblical storytelling, how his passion for narratives inspired the podcast, and the creative process behind his episodes. Scott shares insights into the power of storytelling to transform understanding of scripture, recounts meaningful connections he's made through podcasting, and reflects on the ways his ministry intersects with this passion project.
Quotables:
And it was a wonderful learning experience. And one thing I certainly learned working with the kids, the stories that they told, you know, that they told through this, process. We called it the KNOX players. Those stories really stuck with them. I'll never forget, you know, one of the older kids in the group, at some point, she came to the age where she was ready to go through the confirmation classes and prepare to join the church. So I was asking her, we're just talking a little bit about you know, the Bible, and where did the Bible connect with her? She said well, the only stories, the only parts of the Bible that I know are the ones that we made Knox players videos about, because those were the ones that stayed with them. - Rev. Scott McAndless
I honestly think that human beings naturally have been designed, programmed to understand the universe by telling stories. We make sense of the world by telling stories about ourselves and about the world around us. So that's what really matters. I keep coming back to the stories. As I get older, I have not a lot of patience for reading theology. People suggest theology books. I mean, I know my theology. I studied in my theology, but I'm not interested in systemically understanding who God is and where God fits. I just want to hear a good story, because that's what stays with you, and that's what changes your mind, which, of course, is why I do what I do, in terms of the podcast. - Rev. Scott McAndless
Solomon famously orders the baby cut in half, I told that story. And I'm not going to spoil this one, but you got to listen to this one. I told the story from their point of view, from the Women's point of view. And I can't believe how powerful this is, but just giving them names, because they're all nameless in the story, giving them names, making them into real persons, and trying to understand where they were and where they were coming from, I have come to understand that story very, very differently, and I'm not going to explain - I would go listen to that one, because it's called Magnificent Monarch Mansplains Motherhood, I think is what I called it. - Rev. Scott McAndless
About Rev. Scott McAndless
The Rev. W. Scott McAndless was born and raised in Toronto, Ontario. Following high school he studied at the University of Toronto earning a bachelor’s degree in History and in Linguistics.
Scott worked for a few years with Campus Crusade for Christ. He was sent to the campus of the Université de Montréal. There he met and later married his wife, Dominique Carignan.
After a few years, Scott received a call to become a minister of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. He enrolled at McGill University and the Presbyterian College where he earned his Bachelors of Theology and Master of Divinity Degrees. While he was studying he served as the student minister of Northlea United Church in Laval, Quebec.
Upon graduation, Scott was called to be the minister of St. Giles Presbyterian Church in Baie D’Urfé, Quebec. He served them for four years and led that congregation through a very difficult decision to dissolve the congregation to better serve the kingdom of God elsewhere.
Next Scott was called to serve at Knox Presbyterian Church, Leamington, Ontario where he worked for 15 years. During his time at Leamington he served for six years on Assembly Council – convening the Long Range Planning Committee for five of those years. He also served as the Moderator of the Presbytery of Essex-Kent from 2001- 2004 (with some brief relief) and as Clerk of Presbytery from 2004- 2011.
In the fall of 2011 he was called to minister to the congregation of St. Andrew’s Hespeler Presbyterian Church in Cambridge, Ontario where he now lives with his wife, Dominique, his two daughters, Gabrielle and Zoé, and his dog Minnie. In the summer of 2014, he and Gabrielle joined a team from St. Andrew’s Hespeler on a mission trip to the Winnipeg Inner City Mission.
Scott enjoys making video skits that illustrate the themes and messages for his worship services with the St. Andrew’s Stars, an acting troupe of kids and young people in the church. These sketches are posted on The StAndrewsStars YouTube Channel .
In 2013, Scott published his first book, Caesar’s Census, God’s Jubilee: Rethinking and Reimagining the Story of Mary and Joseph’s Journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem. The book is available in print on Amazon.com . The e-book version is available wherever e-books are sold. A word of warning, though: if you read this book, you just might not be able to see the old familiar Christmas story in the same way ever again.
Additional Resources:
Retelling the Bible, Season 2: The Transcripts
History in the Bible by Gary Stevens
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Transcript
[Introduction]
Welcome. Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast coming to you from the Center for Lifelong Learning at Knox College, where we connect, encourage and resource ministry leaders all across Canada as they seek to thrive in their passion to share the gospel. I am your host, the Reverend John Borthwick, Director of the Center and curator of all that is Ministry Forum.ca. I absolutely love that I get to do what I get to do, and most of all that, I get to share it all with all of you. So thanks for taking the time out of your day to give us a listen. Whether you're a seasoned ministry leader or just beginning your journey, this podcast is made with you. In mind.
[John Borthwick]
Welcome back to the Ministry Forum Podcast. We're delighted to have a guest with us this episode, and our guest is the Reverend Scott McCandless. Scott's been a good friend for a very long time in ministry here at the Presbytery of Waterloo Wellington, since we've got to know him from there, but he has a past from other places and spaces. I believe he graduated from perhaps a different theological seminary than I did, but we won't hold that against him. It'll be all good. And we're looking forward to talking to Scott, because this is one of our crosscast episodes, and we want to learn a little bit more about sort of the origin story of retelling the Bible, which is an amazing podcast, I will confess right from the start. Even though I'm a great supporter of Scott's podcast, I am way, way, way behind, possibly a year and a half behind. It's just hard to keep up. But there's a ton of creativity and a ton of exciting ways of retelling the Bible and so without too much more of my words, let's hear from Scott.
[John Borthwick]
Scott, welcome to our podcast.
[Scott McAndless]
Thank you very much, John, wonderful to be here. Wonderful to have you as a friend. And if I'm allowed to say I think you're doing an awesome job in this new position of yours, it's great to watch you at work.
[John Borthwick]02:12
Oh, thanks so much. That's very kind. Mutual admiration society will be on full alert during this podcast episode. So Scott, if you could tell our Ministry Forum audience a little bit about maybe how you got started in ministry, where you went to school, where you've served, and then we're going to get into how this podcast thing came to be a part of your life.
[Scott McAndless] 02:35
Okay, well, grew up in what is now Toronto, in one of the boroughs of Toronto, and did some undergraduate study at University of Toronto, where I studied history and linguistics.
And after that, I actually worked with a non denominational Christian organization for a while, Campus Crusade for Christ. So sort of one of those very evangelical organizations. I didn't quite fit there, but obviously learned a few things along the road, and so after a few years working with them, I decided that God was calling me to ministry in the church, and ultimately in the church that I grew up in, in the Presbyterian Church in Canada.
And so that was when I was living in Montreal at the time, and I applied and went to Presbyterian College in Montreal, which was a great place to study, a small school, and just the incredible context in Montreal is a wonderful place I believe, to study theology, no disrespect to any other schools, obviously, but it was a great place to study.
So after that, was ordained work for four years in a church in the West Island of Montreal, in Bay der Fauci. That was a great learning experience, but it was a church that I went into that had been declining for 20 years or something, and facing many challenges. And so we worked hard on, you know, as my first ministry, finding a different path, different future, with that congregation. But ultimately ended up deciding that the best course, the course that God was calling us to, was the dissolution of that congregation. So I helped them to come to that decision, and we dissolved the congregation. I got laid off, you might say, and at just the right time, a call to another congregation in Leamington, Ontario came along.
And so I moved to Leamington, Ontario, and had a wonderful time. There great, great people, great ministry. I believe I was there about 13 years, and then I was ultimately. Called to where I am now, which is at St. Andrews Hespeler in Cambridge, Ontario, which is in the Presbytery of Waterloo Wellington, where I met a guy named John Borthwick. And He's okay. He's okay.
[John Borthwick]05:17
Yeah, nice. Thanks. I'm glad I'm okay.
And when you came here, I got to know you a little bit because, interestingly enough, I think you had videos on what we call the Internet. Yes, related to some things you were doing in Leamington.
And so when I first heard about you coming, I did a little search. And this is long before we all now have videos on the internet of us doing our thing, but it seemed like you had curated some videos related to maybe, maybe Bible stories, or how to tell the Bible for church. And I know that your ministry here has also been defined with a lot of different sort of creative ways of trying to connect the scriptures and the people at the congregation and an intergenerational way as well lots of children. Can you say more about your approach to these things? You've got a lot of creativity. Scott.
[Scott McAndless]
Well, and I thank you. I like to think I'm creative, and I get a lot of energy from being creative. And I like experimenting with technology.
So yeah, when I was in Leamington. We were in this situation. We couldn't offer a lot of programming for you know, we had some kids there, but we couldn't offer a lot of programming. We didn't have the resources. So what I started to do was I would write little skits for the kids of the passages of the stories in the Bible what I was going to be preaching on in the next couple of weeks, which meant I had to be really organized, but it was really good.
And we learned with those kids, and some of them were really quite young, and some of my kids were there were really quite young, and we figured out how to very quickly and easily with young kids, some of whom couldn't read, to get them to record these Bible stories. Learned a lot about how to film little kids and but we had a great time, and that was one of the things. So we had a simple projector, a stand up screen, and we would play these videos of the kids telling the story that I was going to be preaching on during worship.
And it was a wonderful learning experience. And one thing I certainly learned working with the kids, the stories that they told, you know, that they told through this, process. We called it the KNOX players. Those stories really stuck with them. I'll never forget, you know, one of the older kids in the group, at some point, she came to the age where she was ready to go through the confirmation classes and prepare to join the church. So I was asking her, we're just talking a little bit about you know, the Bible, and where did the Bible connect with her? She said well, the only stories, the only parts of the Bible that I know are the ones that we made Knox players videos about, because those were the ones that stayed with them. So we had fun with that. And yes, we we did them as humorously as possible. Sometimes we played up the more comic sides of the stories, but the main point was always there. So I've, yeah, I always loved to tell stories. I've always, you know, in my approach of the Bible, I would always narrow in on the narrative portions. Those are the ones that really speak to me, for I'm not giving a lot of thought to that. I honestly think that human beings naturally have been designed, programmed to understand the universe by telling stories. We make sense of the world by telling stories about ourselves and about the world around us. So that's what really matters. I keep coming back to the stories. As I get older, I have not a lot of patience for reading theology. People suggest theology books. I mean, I know my theology. I studied in my theology, but I'm not interested in systemically understanding who God is and where God fits. I just want to hear a good story, because that's what stays with you, and that's what changes your mind, which, of course, is why I do what I do, in terms of the podcast.
[John Borthwick]
So what was the inspiration for the podcast? How did that come into being for you? Well, obviously, you love stories, and you have different ways of telling them, but the podcast itself.
[Scott McAndless]
Well, it actually started. I focused really in on the Nativity stories.
I understood that we've always had these two nativity stories, one told in Matthew, one told in Luke. And they're different stories, very different and somewhat contradictory in some ways, but what we've done in the history of the church and in the tradition is we've crammed those two stories together, and so we have the shepherds and the angels, you know, at the manger, that's all from the Gospel of Luke, and we just throw in the wise men and the star from the Gospel of Matthew, and we just pretend it's all one story, when it really doesn't work that way.
So, I wanted to focus it specifically on Luke's story and understand what Luke was trying to say, and if we never had Matthew, in many ways, Matthew's story has spoiled our understanding of Luke. If we never had read Matthew, how would we understand Luke differently? And as I dug into that, I came up with a new understanding of what exactly Luke was trying to do in his nativity story, and what I think he's doing is much more theological than it is specifically or literally historical. He's trying to present the birth of Jesus using the Old Testament idea of the Year of Jubilee. And once I came to understand that it made much more sense of what Luke was writing, and it made much more historical sense of the story he was telling as well.
So I felt I discovered something there, and I wanted to present it to the world. So I wrote a book, and I called that book Caesar census, God's Jubilee. And the first draft of that book, which was just all my cerebral thinking through what Luke is doing, I sent that out to a few friends, and I they were reading it through for me, you know, as you do. And halfway through, waiting for their feedback, I said, you know, there's a bunch of stories I need to tell this as a story. And so I wrote what I called interludes between each chapters of just retelling the story, because the Christmas story is this story that we've been told, and we've been told as this amalgamated story with the wise men and the shepherds at the manger. And so that story is in our minds. I needed to tell the story differently, as if we had only heard it from Luke. So I added these interludes.
So once I got the book finished, final draft published, I noticed that nobody had ever noticed that it was there and nobody bought it, because that's what how publishing works, right? So I said, What am I going to do? I need to sort of get the word out.
And so I decided, just as a one off, that I would record all of those interludes and put it out one by one as a podcast. So that was the first year of my podcast, which I called Retelling The Bible, but I just did the stories from my book.
And then once the year was over, I put it away and didn't think about it for a little while, but the next year, encouraged, actually, by a friend of mine named John Borthwick, I decided that maybe it was time for me to take an intermission from my ministry, which I'm sure at some point this man will talk about on his podcast, because he's a big advocate for that.
So I decided to take an intermission, and I said, Well, during my intermission, let's try a new season of the podcast, and let's do it a little bit differently. And rather than just telling Christmas stories, I started telling stories, some of my favorite stories from all over the Bible and so, and that was second season, and now I'm in the eighth season of my podcast. So I have told a lot of Bible stories, and I haven't run out yet. I don't see any sense that I'm going to run out of stories anytime soon.
[John Borthwick]
And we're going to include in this podcast that we're doing, we're going to include, I believe it's going to be the visit that Mary has as you tell it as a part of your interlude in your book
[Scott McAndless]
I think the title is The Stranger.
[John Borthwick]
Yeah, we're going to be sharing that as a part of this podcast, just so people can get a taste of it. I know it's your first season, so it's not as, probably as fine-tuned as you've gotten to over eight seasons, but we'll share that as a way of wetting people's appetite to dive into the rest. The kinds of stories that you've been doing. So, Scott, one of the things we have on our podcast is we do unpaid commercial breaks. Since you mentioned your book, we'd love to feature it for our Ministry Forum audience. Could you give them a little sense of not only the first book that you talked about, but I'm pretty sure you've also published a second book where they can find it what the two books are a bit about. And yeah, just give them a little sense of that. This is your time to plug your stuff.
[Scott McAndless]
Well, friends, if you're looking for a book that might give you a fresh, new look at the Christmas story, that well, beloved Christmas story, I understand this is maybe coming out in December. So maybe you're looking for somebody on your Christmas list. Let me suggest that Caesar Census, God's Jubilee, by W Scott McCandless is a book that might just blow your mind as you think of the Christmas story. Have you ever wondered what on earth Luke was trying to say when he's talked about this census that was somehow universal and that everyone was going to their ancestral home to be registered, which really makes no sense. Well, this is a book that makes sense of that and helps you to understand what Luke was trying to say. So go look for Caesar Census, God's Jubilee. It is available on Amazon, also anywhere you buy your ebooks. And if you're looking, once you're done that one, if you're looking for another book, you might take a look at Season Two of Retelling the Bible, the transcripts. Now, friend of mine looked at that read and said, you need an editor. So perhaps it needs a bit of editing. It's a little bit rough, but you know, the stories are there. You've heard them on the podcast. Maybe you want to read them too, that’s also available wherever you buy your ebooks or on Amazon.
[John Borthwick]
Thank you so much for sharing those opportunities to go a little deeper on some of the things that you've done a lot of thinking about if every episode of your podcast was like one of your children, what if you were to name? Let's say, because you've got so many, let's say, let's say two. What would be the two favorites of yours? It could be about maybe the process involved and the insights that you came up with that you got to share with folks, or it could just be, this is one of my favorite Biblical stories, and I was just so delighted to be able to share it in the way that you do. Could you share a couple? I'm sure they're all your favourite.
[Scott McAndless]
You're taught now, if somebody asked you which is your favorite child, I know you would not answer that. So I wouldn't, I mean that this is, this is in some ways an impossible I mean, in many ways my favorite episode is always the one I'm working on, the one I recorded this morning. So, so there is that. But if I were to pick out a couple that maybe shook my understanding one would be and this is way back Gomer's Me too moment. It revolutionized the way that I approach a lot of Scripture. Gomer, as you may know, is the wife of the Prophet, Hosea, one of the earliest prophets. And I had always been taught and learned that it was a love story, that it was this wonderful story. That Gomer was this awful, unfaithful harlot wife, and that Hosea loved her anyways, and took her back even when and as I dug into this story, and I did a lot of reading behind this one in particular, as I dug into this story, I could not hold on to that view, and I realized that, looking at the story, especially as a modern person, I began to see that Hosea was controlling. He was abusive towards this woman. He did things like He stripped her naked in public, he shamed her in public, and he's just horrible to her, takes her children away from her, just abuses her. And I don't know how I missed that in previous readings, but as I told the story from her point of. You absolutely it changed my way of reading the story. And the problem is, I mean, the amazing thing about the book of Hosea. Hosea is, he is this prophet, one of the earliest prophets, and probably the first one in the Bible, to really promote this idea of the steadfast loving kindness of God, how God is so faithful to His people, even when they go astray, which is a wonderful, beautiful idea. And yet that idea is developed by a guy who obviously thought he himself was extraordinarily loving and forgiving to his wife, but as you look at the guy, he was a controlling, abusive bastard, basically. So I still think it's a valuable book. I still call it an inspired book, but it's, it's also understanding how that inspiration of this wonderful idea came to a very, very flawed human being who, and I continued to struggle with that book and what to do with it and what it tells me about God, but it challenged me to approach the whole thing very differently. So that's definitely one I don't like. I say it's hard to pick out one, but once again, another one, that kind of revolutionized my view, was the famous story of Solomon and the prophets. You know, these, the prophets, the prostitutes, the ones who come with them, with one dead child, and, you know, and whereas Solomon famously orders the baby cut in half, I told that story. And I'm not going to spoil this one, but you got to listen to this one. I told the story from their point of view, from the Women's point of view. And I can't believe how powerful this is, but just giving them names, because they're all nameless in the story, giving them names, making them into real persons, and trying to understand where they were and where they were coming from, I have come to understand that story very, very differently, and I'm not going to explain - I would go listen to that one, because it's called Magnificent Monarch Mansplains Motherhood, I think is what I called it.
[John Borthwick]
Your titles are quite subtle.
[Scott McAndless]
I like, I like coming up with titles
[John Borthwick]
Yes, and the tiles that you create for many of the images for many of your podcast episodes…
[Scott McAndless]
Usually featuring my lovely face.
[John Borthwick]
Indeed. It's a lot of you, but it’s you telling stories. Maybe tell us a little bit about the process. You're a full time minister, so you have probably a lot on your plate, but ballpark, what is it? How long does it take to sort of come up with the idea, do some of the backstory, and then get to the place where you're recording the podcast. Your podcast comes out twice a month. I think, Well, every second week. So how does that work for you? You're obviously an advanced planner, which I love, you know? So maybe that's how you keep your life quasi organized, and they're able to have some space to do these things that you're so passionate about.
[Scott McAndless]
Well, writing is something that I've got to do. So when I am in between things, when I'm walking, I often am writing, you know. So, I write by dictating into my phone. So, I'm constantly writing my sermons. That's why, you know, for my full-time job, I am writing my sermons as I maybe I'm walking from one place or another, or maybe out walking the dog I have now.
You know, I have this little, tiny keyboard that I carry around with me that connects to my phone, and if I'm sitting down waiting for an appointment or whatever it is, I am writing. So, I do constantly write, and so I always have something on the go. So, I'm often writing a sermon, and then when you get stuck on a sermon, I just switch over and I work on the latest podcast. Many of these stories have been stories that have been rolling around in my head for years, and I the fact that I'm doing these stories makes me, pushes me to read various kinds of books that I just that I loved very scholarly books that pushed me into new understandings of some of these stories and the history behind them.
So, yeah, so I just write them as stories. If I get stuck, I push through or I come back and fix it later. I’ve just got to be writing. So that's what I do. And so I write it, I finally get it into the final form. And then, usually on the Monday, sometimes the Sunday afternoon before the episode comes out, I pick some music, because I always have music in between the little as transitions. So, I go looking through the Creative Commons to find music that I can use, that fits with the story, which is often challenging. And then I go into the closet, literally with my laptop and a good microphone, and I sit down and I record it, and then next day I'll edit together, put it through with the music. I just do that on my own, and I don't have a fancy editor working on my podcast, like some people. And then I put it out on Wednesday morning, 5am I like, I upload it before, so it releases. And I usually put out a little show notes, companion about some of the background and some of the connections and links that go with it on the same day. But yeah, and then just keep on going, you know, when I'm on vacation or when I'm off, I maybe get a little bit further ahead and so I don't get behind on the stories. And there are times when I'll write a sermon that is very narrative, and then I will late take that and adapt it to the podcast, but I do try and keep those separately. I don't think of the podcast as being for the church. It is for anyone, and not specifically for people in the church, or even necessarily Christian ones, because I don't want to feel constrained in the podcast saying I need to tell the story in a way that speaks to the church, or even that fits in with the church's accepted theology. I want the Bible stories to speak for themselves and not be constrained by any of those kinds of expectations.
[John Borthwick]
Interesting, I certainly was gonna ask you about how is there an intersection between the church and the podcast? But you've explained that. Well, that's interesting. You've also been invited or explored ways, sort of what we're trying to do with the Ministry Forum Podcast, either showcase other people's podcasts like Retelling the Bible or doing I call them cross-casts. I don't know if there's - I guess collaborations might be another way for doing that, but you've been connecting with folks from around the world. I think. Can you tell us a little bit more about who you've been able to connect with through this communication tool?
[Scott McAndless]
Yeah, in a couple of years, after I started, I started another podcast that I really liked was the History in the Bible by Gary Stevens, who's in Australia. And, you know, after a little while, I think I just sent him, I just love listening, just working through the whole Bible in history, basically. And I sent him a few emails saying, oh, you know, I like what you're doing, and I had a different take on something. And he said, I said, “Oh, you should come on my podcast”. So came on his podcast, and he did an interview, which was really fun. And so I've been on his podcast a couple of times, and that was, he's a wonderful guy to meet. He and another guy who's down in the states, we've done three way discussions as well about various some of my episodes that we just wanted to discuss. So we put out a few of those. And then a few years ago, I like to hang out on Reddit, and Reddit is like when I put on an episode, if it connects with any Reddit forum, I will post there. And that's one good way to promote your podcast is if you have relevant ways to speak to various subreddits. And so I was hanging out on, I think open Christian and somebody put I'm starting a new podcast, and I'm wondering if anyone has insights on stories and left wing, specifically left wing radical insights on Genesis, because he was starting in Genesis, they were starting in Genesis. And so I said, “Oh, I did a great story about the herders of Lot and Abraham, I'd love to discuss it”. So I went on that podcast, which is called the Word in Black and Red. We started out talking about that episode, and like the passage and my take on it. And then they invited me back for continuing to talk on several times. So I've been on several times on the Word in Black and Red, which is, which is explicitly a left wing, sometimes communist, some certainly sometimes anarchist approach to the Bible, you know, unapologetically, and I've been there and wonderful to talk with people and boy, the people I meet on that podcast. So, you know, being exposed to people who I never would have talked with before, who approached the Bible from a queer point of view, from a neur/atypical point of view, and many others. And it's just deep in me, you know.
So it's just being open to these things. And then just recently, I had a wonderful experience. I was approached by Jeanne Blasberg, and she is an author and an award-winning author who writes stories, and she is Jewish and sees approaches her stories as a kind of a Midrash. And so she had written a story about David set in modern day New York in the midst of recent events, you know, in the midst of the COVID epidemic and the Black Lives Matter and all of that. So, she'd written this pretty incredible story which was entirely based on that. So I said, well, obviously I hadn't read that, but I'd be very interested. And so I got to read her book and then talk with her about her process, because she's doing, obviously, we're doing something kind of the same. We're retelling Bible stories, but she's doing it much more literarily than I can, but in a different kind of approach. But it was really, really fascinating. And, yeah, that's another connection I never would have made without doing this podcast. So it's great fun. It's great connections, great learning.
[John Borthwick]
It seems like you're by putting yourself out there in a podcast forum, you're having a chance to connect with people you may have never connected with before. It sounds like it's also deepening your understanding of the Bible and of theology and of ways of seeing the thing that we find so valuable and so important to be able to be sharing that. So that sounds like an amazing thing, that this has been a sort of an extra as a part of doing what you're doing. Maybe one of our themes at Ministry Forum is that you're not alone, and it's nice to as I'm hearing you tell this story. It's that kind of thing of like, initially you're in your closet, recording, putting it out into the universe, hoping somebody might download it. And now you're at this place of season eight, and you're making these connections across the world and engaging in conversations with folks you may have never talked to before. I think that's an amazing tribute to the hard work you've been doing, but also an amazing benefit for your own self in that experience as well.
[Scott McAndless]
Thank you very much, John.
[John Borthwick]
And now our gift to you. W Scott McCandless retelling the Bible podcast episode entitled The Stranger
[Scott McAndless: Retelling The Bible]
This is retelling the Bible, a podcast dedicated to helping you hear familiar Bible stories in new ways. I am your storyteller. W Scott McCandless, the point of this podcast is not to establish the actual historical events that stand behind the biblical stories, so much as it is to help us to hear them as the writers intended them to be heard and as the original hearers would have done so.
In season one, we are focusing on the gospel of Luke's account of a journey made by Mary and Joseph from Nazareth to Bethlehem. But before we delve more fully into the intended meaning of that journey, there is a rather remarkable encounter we really ought to deal with first.
Episode Four: The Stranger
Every afternoon after a hard day's work in the fields, Mary's father is in the habit of stopping for a while in the village square for a little cup of wine and a chance to catch up with his friends. Mostly they talk about the weather and how the olive trees are doing and other little matters of everyday life. Occasionally, the events going on in the wider world intrude into their discussions; what King Herod Antipas is building up in the huge city of Sephora - a whole days walk away, New Roman taxes that are being proposed down south in Judea.
Only rarely do they talk about what is happening in the village, because, well, nothing ever happens in Nazareth, the place is far off the beaten track up in the hills, and nobody ever comes here. In fact, the last interesting thing that happened here was over a generation ago when a new family arrived and settled in. They were refugees from Judea, far to the south they came, according to the rumors that flew everywhere from the town of Bethlehem, but as refugees from the economic policies of Herod the Great, they had brought almost nothing with them, only a few basic tools that allowed them to scrape out a living as carpenters in the local region, as is always the case in a small village where nothing ever changes, it wasn't easy for the new family to fit in, people who have known them for decades now, whose children have grown up with theirs still treat them like outsiders, but they are good people, and the village has gradually warmed to them.
In fact, the next big event that is expected to happen in the village is a marriage Joseph, the young son of the new family, is to marry Mary. Her father is very pleased with the match that he has made for his daughter. For though his family is even poorer than most in Nazareth, Joseph is a fine young man, and he has every confidence that he will do well by Mary. You, one day when Mary's father stops by the square, his friends have plenty to talk about. For a stranger has appeared that very day in the village, everyone is busy speculating about him and gossiping about him. They say he must have come from the south because he speaks with a strange accent. He is dressed far too shabbily to be a merchant or a traveling nobleman, and so it has been concluded that he must be a homeless wanderer or perhaps an escaped slave, he is not, in other words, the kind of person that anyone wants around, why he might even be a rebel or a bandit, and welcoming someone like that can be very dangerous these days. That is why everyone has been going out of their way to make the young and admittedly very handsome man feel most unwelcome in Nazareth. They are just hoping that he will get the message and move on as quickly as possible. As soon as he hears the tale, Mary's father knows that this is just not the right reaction. He immediately sets out to find the man. It does not take long and Nazareth. After all, is not a big place. When he finds him, he immediately bows down low to the ground and says, Please, sir, you would do my family a great honor, if only you would consent to come and lay down your belongings in our house this night and allow us to share our bread for the day. So gracious is the invitation that the stranger must accept when her father arrives with the stranger, Mary is the only one at home. She is just returning from the well with water to prepare the evening meal. Her mother is still at work in the fields with the other women. Her brothers are likewise occupied once he has installed the stranger in the kitchen, Mary's father hurries out to meet her at the door. Daughter, he says there was a man in the village. He had no place to go, and no one would welcome him, and so I have brought him here to share our table tonight. Mary nods, but she cannot keep surprise and even a bit of fear from showing on her face. She has always been a quiet and dutiful child, but she cannot believe that her father has invited a complete stranger into their home. Father, she has to say, You know what Mother will think about you inviting such a man as this into our home, we are living in dangerous times, times when associations with the wrong kinds of people can mean a death sentence. Mother would call this foolishness, and she would be right.
Mary, Mary, Mary, your mother is a very wise woman, I know, but she would be wrong about this. Everyone in Nazareth is wrong. Come on. You know the story I've told it to you often enough. It was your favorite when you were seven.
What story, Mary asks
About the time when father Abraham was sitting outside his tent.
Ah yes. Mary interrupts, and Three men came along
Three strangers, adds her father, complete strangers that he knew nothing about. And yet Abraham did not hesitate to greet them as lords and treat them with great honor. He invited them to sit under a tree and asked his wife to prepare them a meal.
Yes, I remember, and Sarah made three barley cakes and served them with a fine calf and curds and whey, a feast fit for a king.
That is right, Mary. But then, as they eat together, something amazing happened, didn't it?
Oh, yes, Mary's eyes flash.
Abraham and Sarah discovered that these men weren't strangers at all. In fact, in the midst of the meal, they discovered that it was God who had been there all along. And that's not all. The Lord even made a promise to Sarah that she would have a son. Sarah laughed at the very idea. It was impossible because she was so old, but God's promise was fulfilled.
Yes, dear child, it was God's promises are always sure, and that was how they knew for sure that God had visited them. And because Abraham and Sarah encountered God by welcoming strangers in my household, we will never turn one away. You never know who you might be turning away.
But surely, Father, you don't think that this man is some kind of heavenly visitor, do you?
Her father's chuckle is a low rumble in the back of his throat.
No, my daughter, I'm sure he's just another man who has lost everything and is reduced to wandering. But while this house remains mine, we will welcome him as if he were Herod Antipas himself. Now you go and take him a cup of wine and a barley cake. While I see what kind of meal we can put together out back.
As she enters the kitchen with the cup of wine, Mary resolves that she will not speak to the stranger, that she will not even lift her eyes to look upon him. It is her duty to serve him, as her father has commanded, but she will do it with all modesty and humility as is fitting for a young woman of Nazareth. Of course, it never occurs to her that he might notice her, much less speak to her. Men are trained all their lives to believe that a woman is of no account and that she has nothing important to say.
That is why she jumps, almost spilling the wine when he turns and looks straight at her with a piercing glance.
Greetings. He says, You are indeed highly favored. The Lord is with you.
Mary does not know what to make of such a greeting. For a moment, she thinks he is mocking her, but he looks at her so seriously that she dares not laugh. She doesn't know what to say, and so she just lets him continue.
Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. You will conceive and bear a son. He even goes on from there to tell her what name she ought to give such a son. Now that is ridiculous. She knows very well that she is not about to have a son no matter what he is called and speaking of names, how does he know hers? She is sure that her father hasn't mentioned it to him. Mary can't help but laugh.
Now, a child me, that's impossible. I am a virgin.
Do you laugh? Says the stranger. I remember another who laughed as well
An odd thrill passes through Mary's whole body. She is suddenly fully awake and aware of everything around her. She just knows that she is in the presence of something that she cannot quite explain.
The stranger, continues, Mary, you need to learn what she learned, that nothing is impossible, not when God is involved.
Mary has no response to that, and so she retreats into the humility that has been drilled into her since birth.
Sir, I am nothing but a simple servant.
But at that moment, she feels a strange surge of boldness pass through her, and she lifts her eyes to meet his, but I will serve the Lord and be a slave to no one else.
At this the stranger merely nods and seems quite satisfied. Mary flees the room in confusion while he sips his wine.
When she returns to the room, but a few minutes later, the man is gone. She does not see him again. No one does. They inquire throughout the village the next day, but it seems that he has stayed in no other home. There is no trace of him at all. He has simply disappeared. Mary ponders long and hard at the meaning of her strange conversation with this man, but that day, she only has one question for her father.
Did he say where he was from? Father? What was his family and his name?
She wants to know of his village and family. He would tell me nothing, my daughter, but as for his name. He called himself Gabriel.
The visit of the angel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary, an event known in the Christian tradition as the Annunciation, is one of those biblical stories that caught the attention of Christians right from the very beginning. As a result, the scene has been painted and depicted over and over again, easily, over a million times in the last two millennia, every painting, sculpture or picture I have been able to find depicts the same thing. Gabriel has the whole kit, flowing white robes, wings, halo, and he is bathed in an unearthly light. Anyone confronted by such a figure would know themselves to be in the presence of one of God's angels. But where does that shining description of the angel Gabriel come from? It doesn't come from the Gospel. The Gospel of Luke provides no description of the visitor whatsoever. So the artists who have painted that scene have taken that description from tradition and from their own imaginations, but not from the pages of the Bible, I believe that it was the author's intention that we hear this story more like I have tried to present it here. It isn't supposed to be immediately obvious who Gabriel is and what he represents. The reason why I think that is because I see clear parallels between this story and the story in the book of Genesis, when Abraham and Sarah encounter three strangers who turn out, in some strange way to be God, hopefully having heard the story in this new way, you can see those parallels more clearly.
So that wraps it up for Episode Four. Join us next time on retelling the Bible as we plunge back into the middle of the story of the epic journey to Bethlehem. If you are enjoying this podcast, please tell your friends and go read us and write a review on iTunes. Once again, I remind you that you can find deeper explanations of the story of the birth of Jesus in Luke's gospel, in my book, Caesar's census, God's Jubilee. My name is W Scott McCandless, and you can reach me on Twitter, @RetellingBible, or at the Facebook page, Retelling The Bible. The theme music on this episode is DA by Kevin MacLeod. The episode music is Magic Forest, also by Kevin McLeod. Both can be found at incompetent.com and are licensed under the Creative Commons. The female voice in today's podcast is Gabrielle McCandless.
[John Borthwick]
thanks for joining us today on the Ministry Forum Podcast. We hope today's episode resonated with you and sparked your curiosity. Remember, you're not alone in your ministry journey. We're at the other end of some form of technology, and our team is committed to working hard to support your ministry every step of the way. If you enjoyed today's episode, tell your friends, your family, your colleagues. Tell Someone, please don't keep us a secret, and of course, please subscribe, rate and leave a review in the places you listen to podcasts, Your feedback helps us reach more ministry leaders just like you, and honestly, it reminds us that we're not alone either, and don't forget to follow us on social media at Ministry Forum, on all of our channels, you can visit our website at Ministry Forum.ca, for more resources keeping up with upcoming events and ways to connect with our growing community until next time, may God's strength and courage be yours in all that you do. May you be fearless, not reckless, and may you be well in body, mind and spirit, and may you be at peace.