Tending Tomorrow: with Rev. Dr. Sarah Travis and Sinyoung Kim
Summary:
This episode launches a special series from the 2025 Lois Klempa Memorial Lectureship, focusing on the future of preaching in Canada through the voices of Canadian women homileticians. Rev. Dr. Sarah Travis opens the series with a powerful lecture titled “Preaching Wild Hope in a Foreign Land.” Travis challenges the myth of Canadian tolerance and explores how preaching must respond to the realities of colonialism, displacement, and multiculturalism. She argues that all Canadians—settlers and newcomers alike—are in some sense foreigners in this land, and calls for a “wild gospel” that is rooted in Spirit-led preaching, sensitive to diverse audiences, and committed to justice and reconciliation. Respondent SinYoung Kim reflects on the emotional and theological implications of foreignness in preaching, raising critical questions about empathy, homiletical strategies, and the role of the Holy Spirit. This rich dialog offers deep insight into what it means to preach truthfully and courageously in a divided and diverse Canada.
About Rev. Dr. Sarah Travis
Sarah Travis is the Associate Professor, Ewart Chair in the Practice of Ministry and Faith Formation at Knox College and has been teaching at Knox since 2012.
Sarah is an ordained minister of the Presbyterian Church in Canada. Her primary areas of research and teaching are preaching, worship and the practice of ministry. From decolonizing worship practices to trauma-informed preaching, Sarah has published several books aimed at facilitating a conversation among Christians about topics that matter for the church today. She is a 2023 Calvin Institute of Christian Worship Teacher-Scholar Grant recipient, exploring how playful theologies can enhance the worship and self-identity of very small congregations.
About Sinyoung Kim
Sinyoung is a doctoral student at Knox College, University of Toronto, and an ordained minister in the Korean Methodist Church. Born and raised in South Korea, he earned his B.A. and Th.M. from Methodist Theological University. After eight years of pastoral ministry in local churches, he moved to the U.S. to broaden his theological perspectives. He holds an M.Div. from Candler School of Theology at Emory University and an M.A.R. in Practical Theology (Homiletics) from Yale Divinity School. With a primary academic focus on homiletics since his studies in Korea, Sinyoung is deeply interested in integrating homiletical theory into worship practices, continually bridging academic research with preaching ministry.
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Transcript
[Introduction]
Welcome. Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast coming to you from the Center for Lifelong Learning at Knox College, where we connect, encourage and resource ministry leaders all across Canada as they seek to thrive in their passion to share the gospel. I am your host, the Reverend John Borthwick, Director of the Center and curator of all that is ministryforum.ca. I absolutely love that I get to do what I get to do, and most of all that, I get to share it all with all of you. So thanks for taking the time out of your day to give us a listen. Whether you're a seasoned ministry leader or just beginning your journey, this podcast is made with you in mind.
[John Borthwick]
Welcome. Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast. I am your host, the Reverend John Borthwick, Director of the Center for Lifelong Learning at Knox College, and the curator of ministryforum.ca. The virtual presence of the Center. Just in case you're a first-time listener. Today, we are beginning a four-part series that we're so excited to share with you. Way back at the end of March, we hosted the 2025 Lois Klempa Memorial Lectureship at Knox College. It was the first time that Knox has done this since 2019 Can you imagine it? And the Lois Klemper Memorial Lectureship honors Lois commitment to theological education and her insightful thinking on current issues, a 1958 graduate of Ewart college Lois fought for women's rights and advocated for women in ministry. Her and her husband, William Klempa, were dynamic and amazing as a couple in in ministry within the PCC, whose impact lives on to this very day, we were delighted to be joined by Lois’ daughters, Catherine and Mary Margaret on the day of the lectureship. It was a beautiful day, not only as we honored Lois legacy, but also the rich learning that we experienced as we listened to the presenters we also shared, and it has to be mentioned, an elegant High Tea luncheon sponsored by our Advancement and Alumni Relations Team at the College. Our thanks to Jennilee and the team's director who discovered this amazing caterer. I only mentioned this by way of celebrating the full experience when you attend an event at Knox College. We hope that you can join us in person when next we host a special occasion.
Now we're excited to share this lectureship series with you, Tending Tomorrow: Canadian Women Homileticians Reflect on the Future of Preaching in Canada. This was a collaboration with the reforming preaching initiative led by the Reverend, Dr Sarah Travis the Ewart Chair in the Practice of Ministry and Faith Formation, and with us at Ministry Forum. It was an extraordinary gathering centered on women's voices in preaching, celebrating women who are creatively living out their calling to proclaim the gospel, expressing their unique voice and perspective and embodying the future of preaching in Canada. It seems that we stand at a pivotal moment in the church's story. Our world is rapidly evolving, becoming more diverse, more complex, and in many ways, more hungry for authentic spiritual guidance. The art of preaching has never been more essential, nor has it faced greater challenges. But where there are challenges, there is also tremendous opportunity for renewal and transformation. Over the next four episodes, you'll have the privilege of hearing from four remarkable Canadian women, homileticians, who are truly leading the way.
The Reverend Dr. Sarah Travis from Knox College at the Toronto School of Theology, whose work on decolonizing worship practices and trauma informed preaching has opened new pathways for authentic proclamation. The Reverend Dr Joni Sancken of Vancouver School of Theology, whose groundbreaking research on preaching and trauma has helped countless preachers bring words of healing to wounded souls. The Reverend Dr HyeRan Kim-Cragg, the Principal of Emmanuel College, whose work on post-colonial preaching challenges us to proclaim the gospel with cultural awareness and ecological commitment. The Reverend Dr Sarah Han, director of the Tyndale Center for Pastoral Imagination, whose passion for reimagining church for the next generation brings fresh perspectives to the preaching landscape. Each of these brilliant scholars will offer a 30-minute lecture followed by thoughtful responses from graduate students within this time together, they shared and explored critical questions that shape our shared ministry. What emerging trends and movements in preaching will shape the church in Canada. How will we faithfully preach the gospel in a rapidly evolving and diverse society? And what role does preaching play in guiding our communities into the future with hope? We kick off the series with Knox College's own the Reverend, Dr Sarah Travis, Associate Professor, and you were Chair of the Practice of Ministry and Faith Formation at Knox College. Sarah has been teaching at Knox Since 2012 she's an ordained minister of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, and her primary areas of research and teaching are preaching, worship and the practice of ministry, from decolonizing worship practices to trauma, informed preaching. Sarah has published several books aimed at facilitating a conversation among Christians about topics that matter for the church today. She's a 2023, Calvin Institute of Christian Worship, teacher, scholar, grant recipient, exploring how playful theologies can enhance the worship and self-identity of very small congregations. Let's listen to Sarah.
[Sarah Travis]
It is such an honor to see this idea come to fruition and welcome you all. And I hope that what I say will be honoring to the memory of Lois Klempa. I did not know her, but she has obviously shaped the world in which and the church in which I have grown up. So I am grateful.
The central question with which I want to begin is, what is a Canadian. As a woman who was born in this country, I have been steeped in the narratives that has shaped this country and its inhabitants. I am proudly Canadian, whatever that means. At least I love my country, and I view my citizenship as a key that unlocks the world. To be Canadian is to belong to a nation that perceives itself to be welcoming, tolerant of diversity and free. This is the narrative on which I have been raised, and which I willingly embrace.
There is something wrong with this dominant narrative. It is perhaps, as Maria Wallace has written, a myth, a myth of tolerance, a myth of welcome. We know when we are brave enough to examine our past that Canada has not lived up to its benign self-identity. We cannot claim to be Canadian without also remembering the intolerances. The ways that we have restricted the freedom of those who have dwelled here. From internment camps during the Second World War to turning away boats of Jewish refugees, this nation, as a nation, has made boldly destructive moves that limit the ability of others to live abundantly. There is not time here to list the crimes of colonialism in which the Canadian government has been complicit, only to say that we should encounter our past with fear and trembling, because this nation was built on the blood and tears of Chinese immigrants working on the railroad. It was built on the land that belongs not to Canada, but to the first peoples who dwelled here, those who were here first have been treated the worst. Indigenous peoples have borne the weight of Canada's narratives. They have been killed, oppressed, ignored, vilified and forgotten.
We who call Canada home, whether as immigrants, settlers, refugees, or some other status cannot proceed until we wrestle with the inadequacy of our narratives. Wrestling will not be enough. There is a need to repair, reconcile and articulate new narratives that more closely resemble the reality of this country. We are a nation of immigrants. All of us, apart from First Peoples. In effect, none of us are fully at home here, our comfort and domesticity are interrupted by our past and present failings. It is ironic perhaps that a nation built on immigration would ever entertain anti-immigrant rhetoric. But here we are. Canadians also tend to define themselves in opposition to the United States in response to the threat of tariffs and chaos south of the border, Canadians have recently embraced a more robust identity. Rather than their usual wishy-washy sense of self. Elbows up. Our politeness is hard to sustain at the moment, but even as I speak, I know that I am not telling the truth about Canadian identity, because there is likely no common Canadian identity. We have tendencies and institutions and structures which support so called Canadian values, like our health care system or our reputation as peacekeepers on the global stage. But is there such a thing as a unified identity in a divided and diverse country? As I said, we are all immigrants, at least, I suspect that to be true in this room. There is no longer a Canadian accent, no longer a Canadian skin color or language. Diversity alongside our checkered past calls out our myths of identity. So who is this we, of which I speak? Is there a we? Are we all in the same boat? I think not.
But I would like to propose that we have something in common, and that we are all foreigners in a familiar land. Those whose families have been here for generations might bristle at the suggestion that they do not fully belong or are not fully at home. But how can we be at home in a land that has been violently stolen? Settlers, those who came to live here and own land here, have assumed that their voice belongs at the center. Newcomers and original inhabitants are pushed to the margins. What makes Canada - Canada? We are all foreigners. The strange reality of being at home, but not at home, belonging and yet not. Longing in Salman Rushdie’s words for imaginary homelands. It is not only the experience of recent immigrants to long for imaginary homelands settlers too long for a place that does not exist anymore. Canada then is not so much our home and native land, but a contested space where many voices fight to be heard over the din of our protestations that we are really just nice, polite, welcoming people. Our experience of colonialism and its violent repercussions mean that we cannot be fully at home in this land. None of us. We are all foreigners. My family has been here for generations. I speak with a perfect Canadian accent, except for the tinge of American that creeps in once in a while. since I was raised on American Sesame Street. I want to belong here. I want to be at home, but I cannot settle comfortably as long as there is injustice and hatred here. And I cannot be at home unless I acknowledge that my white, Canadian born voice is not at the center anymore, nor should it be. I like many of us in this room, have been displaced by other voices. Foreigners with different accents than mine. This is cause for distress for many Canadians, and so it should be, because it is deeply unsettling to make space for others. There is a caveat here, a really important one. We might all be foreigners in Canada, but some of us are safer than others. Depending on race, gender, sexuality, immigration status, etc, etc, some will be more at home than others.
The church in Canada has also become a foreign entity in. The nation no longer speaks with our peculiar accent. Gospel is not vernacular here. It is a foreign language and we Christians are strangers in a strange land. A place of massive anxiety for who of us is not anxious right now about the future of the church in this nation. This world rending change and its steep acceleration caused not only anxiety, but also frustration and even anger. Christians in Canada, at least in mainline denominations may feel that they have been pushed from the center, toppled from power. Some have argued that this post Christendom experience of disestablishment recalls Egypt or Babylon. Oppression or exile. I don't buy either of those narratives. The church is not oppressed. Rather, we have been the oppressors. We are not in exile removed forcibly from our land and homes. Rather, I believe the church has alienated itself through its participation in colonial projects. Its lack of Welcome to others and an arrogance that claimed superiority over all other faith traditions.
As I argued in my book, Metamorphosis, this disestablishment of the Christian church represents the greatest opportunity for renewal and reconstruction. For once we have finished this painful process of deconstruction. We can turn to building something that is rooted not in power and prestige, but in God's promises to those who dwell in the margins. This is not to say that we have finished this experience of disestablishment. It is ongoing and Christians in Canada still hold power relative to other groups. But we are dipping our toes into the margins as our peculiar speech becomes less and less understandable to those around us.
In preaching, we speak a gospel that is foreign to the cultures around us. In a post Christendom context, we must speak strange theologies about a strange man and about a strange god. The gospel of course, should always be foreign. It should never be at home in any nation. It must always be surprising and energizing and decentering. The question becomes, how do we sing the Lord's song in a foreign land? I think we have to wrestle with our own identities as preachers who are also decentered, possessing less power and influence than we once did. Insecurity is incredibly dangerous, as we may be tempted to either conform to the culture or retreat into the safety of an enclosed, walled church.
So what is the alternative if we are indeed foreign preachers, preaching a foreign gospel in the land that might not feel like home any longer. Preaching is doing theology. When we preach sermons, we are doing theology, and so our doing of theology must happen now at the margins of culture. It must happen in those thin places where we encounter otherness. It must happen in those sparks of energy that fly when we encounter other foreigners, and recognize that perhaps we share more than we thought.
Who is listening to our sermons this has become a key question for me? Who is paying attention to what we are saying? Knox College has started a Jewish focus in our Masters of Psychospiritual Studies program. This glad addition to our programs raises interesting questions about how we communicate Christian faith in a Christian institution that must make space for other faith traditions. I have, for example, faced the challenge and opportunity of hosting a Muslim student in my Theology and Practice of ministry course, a course about Christian theology and practice, and this has involved expanding my understanding of what ministry is in this context. Certainly, the presence of others should always give us pause. What can we say in their presence and what can we not say? Obviously, this is a particularly thorny issue in a church that has often interpreted biblical texts in an anti-Jewish way. In my experience, the presence of other faith traditions in our chapel space means we need to think carefully before we speak. As religious cultures bump up against each other, we must always ensure that what we are preaching is sayable to others, as Justo Gonzalez wrote about the American context, when we preach at a Thanksgiving service, we must be ready to repeat in the presence of Native Americans, whatever is said about them and their experience. We must be ready in any preaching context to repeat what we are saying about others in front of them. Can I say that with integrity in front of Jewish or Muslim students? This requires a particular kind of care to speak gospel in a manner that both preserves its integrity as a Christian narrative and respects the neighbor who is listening.
In Canada, we preach in the presence of neighbors of every faith. We must not imagine that what we say as a church goes unheard, especially by those outside our walls. We are what we preach. Our identity and ethics are shaped by sermons, so what we say about others in the pulpit eventually translates into action, whether positive or negative, what we say about our foreign neighbors as foreign preachers will determine to a large extent how Christians will respond to others. Whether to exclude or embrace. This is also true within the Christian Church, where there is tremendous diversity, particularly theological diversity. How we represent our theological opponents in the pulpit, will determine attitudes and behaviors. It will shape how the gospel is enacted in the world. If we are all foreigners, if we are all a little bit uncomfortable and displaced, at least we have something in common.
Some will argue that if we are to change our speech to accommodate others, we are somehow watering down the gospel message. Some may see this as compromising. I see it as telling the truth about who we are in relation to others, in a world created by a God who loves foreigners. To adapt our speech so that it can be heard in a foreign land does not require a tamer gospel. It does not require a tamer gospel. Instead, it requires a gospel that is more wild.
So what do I mean by a wild gospel? The title of this lecture is preaching Wild Hope in a Foreign Land. If we are all foreigners in this country, then the gospel is indeed a foreign word spoken in a foreign land. Our context is diversity. I will not name the statistics, but if you walk around campus for five minutes, you will see that Canada has no representative face. Thus we must be both clearer in our Gospel annunciations and more prodigal in our connection with others. To speak our Christian faith to others requires not a watered-down gospel, but a more clearly articulated one. After all, we cannot be in dialog with others until we know who we are and what we believe.
A wild gospel is firmly rooted in faith like a mustard seed, perhaps. A tiny, neat seed that sprouts into a massive bush that spreads and grows until it has a place for the birds to rest. Although the analogy ends there, we must not forget that the mustard plant is invasive and does not really belong in the garden because it takes over all the growth. We do not want to preach an invasive gospel that squeezes out other life. Rather, we seek a means of communicating good news that allows others to be others while beautifying the landscape with fresh words of new life.
A wild gospel is organic. It begins in our own experience of God in real life and in our experience of God in Scripture. It grows out of our experience of foreignness of not quite belonging to the kingdoms of this world. When we preach, we may argue that the kingdom of God is broader than we expect.
A wild gospel interacts with unexpected sources beyond traditional conversation partners within Christian theology, a wild gospel seeks out those who have experienced God differently. This kind of preaching seeks out perspectives from many faiths, not to compromise Christian values, but to affirm them. After all, is not the entire Gospel a story of foreigners who find a shared but temporary shelter? Is not the entire Gospel the story of a God that interacts with God's people, offering them a divine home that transcends their experience of being strangers and aliens?
A wild gospel is free from the structures of systematic oppression. For preaching, this means that our sermons should not participate in oppressive structures nor condone them. There is a grave danger that we will unintentionally replicate oppression within our sermons, by claiming truths with arrogance, or by claiming a God who plays favorites. This requires modeling nonhierarchical systems of preaching that do not favor ordained over lay people, men over women and non-binary people, or preacher over congregation.
A wild gospel is Spirit led. As Annie Dillard once wrote, we should wear seat belts and crash helmets in church, because we do not know what the Spirit will do next. Protestants and Presbyterians at least, tend to play favorites with the Trinity. We are less than excited to welcome the Holy Spirit, perhaps because it sets all our orderly plans asunder. But this is the Spirit of Pentecost, a Spirit that allowed a bunch of foreigners to speak in ways that they could understand each other. Our speech is not gospel speech unless the Holy Spirit accompanies it through our mouths and into the hearts and minds of our listeners. It is the Spirit that will push us to the margins to find those who most need to hear what we have to say. It is the Spirit that will enable us to listen and learn the language of culture so that we can say something transformative. It is the Spirit that will lead us away from the temptation to close off ourselves from our neighbors.
A wild gospel leads to Wild Hope. As strangers and aliens residing in a foreign land, it is easy to despair. We wonder if we will ever recognize home again. But our hope is rooted in resurrection. What is not possible is possible. What is broken is reconciled, what is destroyed is restored, not ever to its previous specifications, but as something new.
In Jesus Christ, we find a home that fills our longing for belonging. We also find a role model and a Savior who resisted the narratives of religions that claimed too much. Christianity is no longer the only game in town, and we must recognize that God is not ever limited to what God has already said. Not in Scripture, not in experience. God is always free to speak a fresh word. Preaching to and among foreigners will sound strange to our own ears. It is more collaborative and more curious. Preaching in this situation will require new languages with new accents of grace. For the language we have been speaking is inadequate, and our accents are too white and too Western. It is in dialog and encounter that we will learn new words to tell old truths. Words that point to a homeland that is not defined by political structure or religious affiliation, but by the grace and peace of Jesus Christ. Thank you.
[John Borthwick]
Dr. Travis's respondent is Sinyoung Kim. Sinyoung Kim is a doctoral student at Knox College, University of Toronto, and an ordained minister in the Korean Methodist Church. Born and raised in South Korea, he earned his BA and ThM from Methodist Theological University. After eight years of pastoral ministry in local churches, he moved to the US to broaden his theological perspectives. He holds an MDiv from Candler School of Theology at Emory University, and an MAR in Practical Theology Homiletics from Yale Divinity School, with a primary academic focus on homiletics. Since his studies in Korea, Sun Young is deeply interested in integrating homiletical theory into worship, worship practices, continually bridging academic research with preaching ministry. Let's listen to Sinyoung's response.
[Sinyoung Kim]
Good morning. I'm Sinyoung Kim, a doctoral student in Knox College. Thank you, Dr Travis, for this profoundly insightful and timely exploration titled Preaching Wild Hope in Foreign Land. Your lecture completely engages critical questions of identity, belonging and the role of preaching amidst the complexities of Canada's diverse and multicultural landscape. To begin, Dr Travis has invited us into a courageous reflection on the myths underlying Canada's self-perception as a tolerant, welcoming and inclusive nation by highlighting historical injustices, including Canada's oppressive past and ongoing marginalization of Indigenous people and immigrants. You have rightly unsettled the comfortable narratives that have long underpinned Canadian identity. Your call for a wild gospel which courageously navigates the margins and acknowledges its own foreignness, provides both a liberation theological stance and a necessary critique of contemporary preaching practices.
In assessing your contributions, I deeply appreciate your insistence that preaching must happen authentically at the margin. Driven by the Spirit and attentive to the voices traditionally silenced. The acknowledgement that the church, having historically contributed to oppression now finds itself Alienated is a courageous step towards meaningful reconciliation. Your notion of preaching as inherently foreign, always at odds with dominant cultural narratives and thus potentially transformative, significantly enriches our homiletical imagination.
However, I find myself compelled to explore further the practical implications of your argument, particularly given my own experiences. As a Korean who was born and raised in South Korea and ordained in the Korean Methodist Church, I had not fully encountered or understood what it means to feel foreign or to experience otherness until I spent extended period studying theology in the United States at Emory University and Yale University. It was during this time that I truly experienced and profoundly empathized with what it means to be distinctly foreign among Americans. This personal journey profoundly shifted my understanding from intellectual acknowledgement to a visceral empathy of what it means to live as an outsider. Reflecting on this, I wonder, how can Canadian settlers, especially those whose families have been here for generations, genuinely empathize, not just cognitively recognize their own foreignness and the lived realities of immigrants and Indigenous communities? How do we as preachers bridge this gap from intellectual recognition to heartfelt identification and genuine solidarity? What homiletical strategies might practically assist congregations to internalize empathy and respond compassionately to their complex and often unsettling identities as foreigners.
Moreover, recent political developments in North America indicates growing hostility towards immigration. In the United States, recent election results and declining support for pro-immigration parties in Canada highlight this tension vividly. Advocates of anti-immigration policies increasingly argue for strict enforcement and the deportation based on legal residency status, citing the necessity of upholding the rule of law. Conversely, progressive proponents of immigration reform emphasize humanitarian responses, even for those lacking legal status. Both perspectives hold compelling arguments, though each perceives the other’s voice as a foreign and unsettling. Considering that scripture itself reflects God's dual approach of compassion and stillness towards foreigners, how might preachers articulate a wild gospel message on immigration and foreignness that resonate in our contemporary context?
Lastly, you describe a wild gospel as led by the Holy Spirit. How can preachers practically ensure the genuine leadership of the Spirit in preaching within congregations marked by diverse backgrounds and perspectives? From sermon preparation to delivery, what specific practices or disciplines can preachers adopt to facilitate an authentic, impactful and Spirit driven wild gospel, your great work invites rigorous theological reflection and practical engagement. I believe your insights and these ongoing questions can help shape more authentic, compassionate and transformative preaching practices that genuinely foster reconciliation and unity amidst Canada's diverse peoples. Thank you again, Dr. Travis for offering us this remarkable opportunity for dialog and our growth. Thank you.
[John Borthwick]
Thanks for listening to the first of our lectures in the Klempa Lectureship. It was recorded in the chapel of Knox College Toronto. Next time, we will hear from the Reverend Dr. HyeRan Kim-Cragg. We hope you'll join us for part two.
Thanks for joining us today on the Ministry Forum Podcast. We hope today's episode resonated with you and sparked your curiosity. Remember, you're not alone in your ministry journey. We're at the other end of some form of technology, and our team is committed to working hard to support your ministry every step of the way. If you enjoyed today's episode, tell your friends, your family, your colleagues. Tell someone, please don't keep us a secret. And of course, please subscribe, rate and leave a review in the places you listen to podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach more ministry leaders just like you. And honestly, it reminds us that we're not alone either. And don't forget to follow us on social media at Ministry Forum, on all of our channels. You can visit our website@ministryforum.ca for more resources keeping up with upcoming events and ways to connect with our growing community.
Until next time, may God's strength and courage be yours in all that you do. May you be fearless, not reckless. And may you be well in body, mind and spirit, and may you be at peace.