Listening for Hope in a Changing Church: A Conversation with Rev. Dr. Patricia Dutcher-Walls

What does it mean to serve the church faithfully in a time of profound change?

In the latest episode of the Ministry Forum Podcast, Rev. John Borthwick sits down with Rev. Dr. Patricia Dutcher-Walls, Moderator of the 149th General Assembly of The Presbyterian Church in Canada, to explore that very question.

Drawing from her decades of experience as a professor, minister, and theological leader, Pat reflects on the deep joys and challenges of this season in church life and invites us to think critically and faithfully about the moment we are in:

“God gave us brains, and God wanted us to engage thoughtfully—with the Bible, with our experience with God, with our experience in the world. And so my upbringing, I think, shaped how I do Presbyterianism.”

Throughout the conversation, Pat speaks candidly about the realities facing many congregations—aging buildings, shifting cultural engagement, and the fatigue that can come with change. Yet she also lifts up a resilient hope:

“The church 20 years from now might actually have a lot of vitality... The congregations that are there might be quite lively and quite engaged with their communities and quite interested in doing mission and good worship.”

As moderator, she’s chosen to engage with congregations through workshops—listening, learning, and holding space for holy conversations. That posture of openness, she says, is essential to our future:

“We can do all things through the one who strengthens us, and that is going to be our best hope... trusting God, following Jesus, the comfort and challenge of the Holy Spirit is what is going to be needed to move us into the future.”

This episode is for anyone wondering how we navigate faith, tradition, and transformation in a rapidly changing landscape—and how we hold on to hope along the way!

Listen to the full conversation with Rev. Dr. Patricia Dutcher-Walls here or where ever you get your podcasts.
Learn more about the PCC’s Narratives of Hope and Possibility workshops and tool kit here.