Message from Intercultural Liaison Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun
Summary:
This episode of the Ministry Forum Podcast features a special recast of a sermon by Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun, the Intercultural Liaison for the Presbyterian Church in Canada. His message, originally delivered during an ecumenical service at Knox College, explores mutual engagement and epistemological humility in an ecumenical context.
Pablo shares his personal journey across various denominations—including Presbyterian, Baptist, Mennonite, Catholic, and Christian Reformed traditions—which shaped his perspective on Christian unity. He emphasizes the importance of approaching different theological traditions with openness and curiosity rather than defensiveness. Using the biblical story of Peter and Cornelius from Acts 10, he illustrates how God calls believers to humility, mutual transformation, and deeper relationships beyond denominational boundaries.
Quotables:
“But then another shift started to happen within me. I began to see that while each tradition had its limitations, each also carry unique gift and insight that enrich the universal church of Christ. This realization led me to the concept of epistemological humility, the ability to acknowledge the limits of our own knowledge and to remain open to the wisdom of others” - Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun
“Seeing God at work requires openness, attentiveness and a willingness to admit that we might not have all the answers. This is the challenge and the gift of ecumenical engagement. As you encounter different traditions, you may be surprised and even disturbed.” - Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun
About The Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun
Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun served as the Senior Leader for Anti-racism and Intercultural Conciliation with the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) within Canada and as an Intercultural Leadership Program Consultant with the Tyndale Intercultural Ministries (TIM) Centre. In his role with the CRC, he has collaborated with a national anti-racism and decolonization committee to plan, execute and lead systemic and cultural changes within the denomination. His work includes fostering a network of connected organizations and church leaders nationwide and promoting programs that build relationships, particularly with minority communities. At the TIM Centre, he has been instrumental in redesigning and developing new content to equip Christian leaders for diverse and inclusive ministry.
Before these two significant roles, Pablo served as a Mennonite pastor at Toronto Mennonite New Life Church. There, he ministered to a Spanish-speaking congregation, where, in addition to performing pastoral duties, he provided social-emotional support to several members who came to Canada as refugees. Other pastoral roles include being the Lead Pastor at Church for Others in Temple City, California and a chaplain at Fuller Theological Seminary. He has also been an academic mentor at Northwest Baptist College and Seminary in British Columbia, a Louisville Scholar at the Louisville Institute in Kentucky and a Teaching, Research and Program Assistant for Intercultural Leadership and Learning at Forum for Intercultural Leadership and Learning, a reference group of the Canadian Council of Churches.
In addition to three journal articles and a book chapter, Pablo is the author of Becoming a Critical Intercultural Church: A Mennonite Ecclesiology in Contemporary Canadian Multicultural Society (recommended by peer reviewers and the editorial board and is presently under final review for contract issuance) and Who Are Our Enemies and How Do We Love Them? published by Herald Press in 2020.
Pablo is of Korean descent, grew up in Paraguay and came to Canada by way of the United States. His academic studies began with a Licenciatura en Teologia at the Universidad Evangelica del Paraguay, followed by an M.A. in Intercultural Studies and an M.Div. (emphasis in Christian Ethics) at Fuller Theological Studies. He has a Th.M. from Boston College with an emphasis in Christian Ethics and a Ph.D. in Theological Studies from Emmanuel College, University of Toronto.
He is married with a young daughter.
Additional Resources:
Article - New Intercultural Liaison for the PCC
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Transcript
[Introduction]
Welcome. Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast coming to you from the Center for Lifelong Learning at Knox College, where we connect, encourage and resource ministry leaders all across Canada as they seek to thrive in their passion to share the gospel.
I am your host, the Reverend John Borthwick, Director of the Center and curator of all that is ministryforum.ca. I absolutely love that I get to do what I get to do, and most of all that, I get to share it all with all of you. So thanks for taking the time out of your day to give us a listen. Whether you're a seasoned ministry leader or just beginning your journey, this podcast is made with you in mind.
[John Borthwick]
Welcome to another episode of the Ministry Forum Podcast. We're delighted today to bring you a recast of something that we recorded a couple of months ago, we've really been resonating with the spirit of ecumenism. Lately, on the Ministry Forum Podcast, we've had some guests and had some conversations about ecumenism and how we can work more together with our siblings in Christ. And one of the things that happens around the Toronto School of Theology colleges every year is that during the week of prayer for Christian unity, one of the colleges hosts an ecumenical service. This year was Knox College's turn to do so, and we were excited to be able to bring the Reverend. Dr. Hyung Jin Pablo Kim San, the intercultural liaison for the Presbyterian Church in Canada, as the special guest preacher. And so today, what we'd like to do is share Pablo sermon, which, in my opinion, was excellent, and share a little bit more about who Pablo is and his background. If you haven't got to know Pablo yet, or haven't heard about this position of intercultural liaison, I'd really encourage you to check out the ways in which you can connect with him through the Presbyterian Church in Canada, through its website. There's a couple of conversations that are being hosted by the Presbyterian Church in Canada with Pablo so you can get to know him better and learn more about the passion he has for his work. I've got to know him over the last few months, and I must say, he's an amazing individual, so smart, so experienced in this world of interculturalism, and such a gift to our denomination to be able to have him working with our executive team at the national office to help to bring our congregations more information, more understanding, and perhaps guide them through some of the things that we are talking about regularly within our society and certainly within the church today. So today, what I'd like to do first is introduce Pablo to you, sharing a bit of his bio, then I'll read the Scripture lesson that he used for his sermon, and then you'll hear the recording of Pablo’s sermon, and after the recording, we'll send you on your way. Thank you again for joining us on the Ministry Forum Podcast, we're so happy to have you as listeners, and are so grateful that we get to share this kind of information and this kind of experience with each and every one of you.
The Rev. Dr. Hyung Jin Pablo Kim Sun is the new intercultural liaison for the Presbyterian Church in Canada, a position he started on August 2024. Before joining the PCC, Pablo served as the senior leader for anti-racism and intercultural conciliation with the Christian Reformed Church within Canada, and as an Intercultural Leadership Program Consultant with the Tyndale Intercultural Ministries Center. In his role with the CRC, he has collaborated with a national anti-racism and decolonization committee to plan, execute and lead systemic and cultural changes within the denomination. His work includes fostering a network of connected organizations and church leaders nationwide, and promoting programs that build relationships, particularly with minority communities. At the TIM Center, he has been instrumental in redesigning and developing new content to equip Christian leaders for diverse and inclusive ministry. Before these two significant roles, Pablo served as a Mennonite pastor at Toronto, Mennonite New Life church. There he ministered to a Spanish speaking congregation, where, in addition to performing pastoral duties, he provided social emotional support to several members who came to Canada as refugees. Other pastoral roles include being the lead pastor at church for others in Temple City, California, and a chaplain at Fuller Theological Seminary. He's also been an academic mentor at Northwest Baptist College and Seminary in British Columbia, a Louisville scholar at the Louisville Institute in Kentucky, and a Teaching Research and Program Assistant for Intercultural Leadership and Learning at the Forum for Intercultural Leadership and Learning, a reference group of the Canadian Council of Churches. In addition to three journal articles and a book chapter, Pablo is the author of “Becoming a Critical Intercultural Church.” A Mennonite ecclesiology in contemporary Canadian multicultural society, recommended by peer review viewers and the editorial board, and is presently under final review for contract issuance. He's also published, who are our enemies and how do we love them, published by Herald press in 2020 Pablo is of Korean descent. He grew up in Paraguay and came to Canada by way of the United States. His academic studies began with a Licenciatura en Teologia at the Universidad Evangelica del Paraguay, followed by an MA in intercultural studies and an MDiv emphasis in Christian ethics at Fuller theological University. He has a ThM from Boston College with an emphasis in Christian ethics, and a PhD in theological studies from Emmanuel College at the University of Toronto.
A reading from the book of Acts 10:23-33,33-38. I'm reading from the New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition. So Peter invited them in and gave them lodging. The next day, he got up and went with them and some of the brothers and sisters from Joppa accompanied him. The following day, they came to Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. On Peter's arrival, Cornelius met him and falling at his feet, worshiped him, but Peter made him get up, saying, stand up. I am only a mortal. And as he talked with him, he went in and found that many had assembled, and Peter said to them, you yourselves know that it is improper for a Jew to associate with or to visit an outsider, but God has shown me that I should not call anyone profane or unclean. So when I was sent for I came without objection. Now may I ask why you sent for me? Cornelius replied, four days ago, at this very hour, at three o'clock, I was praying in my house, when suddenly a man in dazzling clothes stood before me. He said, Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon, who is called Peter. He is staying in the home of Simon, a tanner by the sea. Therefore, I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. So now all of us are here in the presence of God to listen to all that the Lord has commanded you to say. And continuing from verse 44. While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days.
This is the Spirit's witness to the church. Thanks be to God. Now let us listen to The Rev. Dr. Pablo Kim Sun as he shares a sermon entitled “Mutual Engagement, Embracing Epistemological Humility in an Ecumenical Context”.
[Pablo Kim Sun]
It is a joy and honor to stand before you today, in this ecumenical worship service hosted here at Knox College, as we gather here, representing different traditions and theological background, we embody the richness and the diversity of the Body of Christ. Yet with this diversity comes the challenges of navigating our differences with openness, curiosity and humility. I come to you today, not just as a representative of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, but as someone whose faith has journey has taken me across various denomination and theological landscapes. So, to start my home church was a Korean Presbyterian Church in Paraguay. Any Korean Presbyterians? No, I attended a Baptist seminary for my undergrad, then moved to Fuller Theological Seminary in an interdenominational institution, interdenominational where I became a Mennonite. My journey continued to Boston College, a Jesuit school, Roman Catholic. And during my time there, I worshiped at a Methodist Church. Later, I completed my PhD at Emmanuel College, which is part of United Church of Canada. Worked with the Canadian Council of Churches, a deeply ecumenical space, and spent three years with the Christian Reformed Church in Canada, Christian Reform, and now serve at the Presbyterian Church in Canada. I want to ask for PCC people here, because we're worshiping at Knox College.
As you can see, my journey has not only been intercultural, but profoundly ecumenical. One interesting dynamic about this various connection is that I have been deeply, deeply enriched by them. At the same time, I often find myself not fully belonging anywhere. Another phenomenon I have encountered is that every denominational group explicitly or implicitly, holds the belief that they have the right theology, the right way of being faithful follower of Jesus, the truest expression of Christianity. I'm not saying everyone, but there's this ethos that go around that every time I engage with different denominational group, that somehow there's this understanding that we got a bit more right than others, don't we like? That kind of ethos goes around. And so, during the early stage of my ecumenical journey, this was confusing. I thought, if this group is right, I must, I must learn from them, so that I will study all the Baptist theologians. Then I encounter another tradition, and thought, Wait, maybe they have a more correct, the Mennonite, and I will study them. Eventually, I realized that everyone seemed to think they were right, I then said to myself, if everyone is right, except for one denomination, the rest must be lying, or at least they're wrong. This led me to start the deconstructing of my theology of each denomination I encountered as I pursued my academic studies, I use critical, anti-racist, post-colonial and decolonial lenses to scrutinize traditions. Sometimes, as I read the theological books, I will say, Oh, this theology are just a lot of white old men people saying something or what a colonial and Eurocentric way of doing theology.
But then another shift started to happen within me. I began to see that while each tradition had its limitations, each also carry unique gift and insight that enrich the universal church of Christ. This realization led me to the concept of epistemological humility, the ability to acknowledge the limits of our own knowledge and to remain open to the wisdom of others. For church leaders and theologians, epidemiological humility means recognizing that our knowledge of God, faith and truth is always partial, shaped by our historical, cultural and theological context. No single tradition, denomination or theological framework has a complete grab of the divine truth. This humility calls us to learn from others, to question our assumptions and to be attentive to how the Holy Spirit may be working beyond our own perspectives. It invites us to engage in theological inquiry with curiosity rather than arrogance, to embrace dialog rather than dogmatism, and to be willing to be corrected and transformed through encounters with other traditions, cultures and experiences. It does not mean relativism or abandoning our conviction, but rather holding conviction with openness and discernment, recognizing that theological growth often comes through mutual engagement.
The encounter between Peter and Cornelius in Acts 10 is a powerful example of mutual transformation through epistemological humility. By the way, I don't go to church and talk about epistemological humility. I'm just saying because we're in a seminary here, just to let you know. Epistemological theory, it sounds smart.
Peter, a Jewish follower of Jesus, and Cornelius, a Roman centurion, represent two groups that were not supposed to associate Peter, shaped by Jewish custom, experience of Roman oppression would have every reason to reject Cornelius. And Cornelius, as a Roman soldier, was part of the empire that subjugated Peter's people. Yet, God somehow mysteriously bring them together. Cornelius, despite his high status, humbly invites Peter into his home. Peter, though uneasy, responds with hospitality and openness by inviting Cornelius messenger to stay for a night. When Peter arrived at arrived at Cornelius house and began to preach, something astonishing happens. The Holy Spirit falls upon Cornelius and his household, Peter and his Jewish companion are stunned, learning that God's grace extends beyond their preconceptions. Some scholars describe this event as the conversion of Peter rather than Cornelius, but I see it as a mutual transformation. Cornelius and his households get a deeper understanding of the gospel, while Peter learns that God's Spirit is not confined to his own tradition.
What enabled this moment was epistemological humility. The willingness to be surprised by God, to recognize that one does not have the full picture, and to be open to the gift of the others. But humility is difficult when we are filled with certainty. Throughout scriptures, we see people resisting God's work because of their rigid conviction. We see this in the book of Exodus, where Pharaoh hardened his heart despite witnessing miracles. The Pharisee refused, refused to acknowledge Jesus divine power, even accusing him as being linked with demons, calling him Beelzebub, the prince of demons. At Pentecost, some dismissed the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as mere drunkenness. Seeing God at work requires openness, attentiveness and a willingness to admit that we might have all the answers. This is the challenge and the gift of ecumenical engagement. As you encounter different traditions, you may be surprised and even disturbed. You may think they believe what their tradition does, what? And deep down, you might wonder, and I confess I have said this before, but of course, quietly, are they even Christians? You will also uncover painful histories, racist theologians, tradition that supported colonialism and slavery, churches complicit in imperialism and oppression. You will realize that theologists we respect were involved in moral failings, including sexual abuses. As leaders in the church, we must engage this reality with sensitivity and integrity.
But alongside the brokenness of each denominational tradition, we will find beauty, wisdom and profound expressions of faith. To recognize this gift, we need to cultivate again, epistemological humility. As you all know, TST, the school of theology, is a profoundly ecumenical space, and I encourage you to embrace this opportunity, not just to study alongside people from different traditions, but to engage, listen and form deep friendships, challenge others and be prepared to be challenged in return. Allow yourself to be shaped and transformed by others.
And what I find it particularly surprising in the final verse of Acts 10, where Peter and his group stayed at Cornelius house for several days. Peter could have simply left after completing his mission, he could have left, but he chose to stay. And remember, they didn't have social media, smartphones, TV or Netflix. They actually spent time together. These details highlight some crucial something crucial. Peter's transformation wasn't just about changing his mind or adopting a new theological framework. It led to a deeper relationship with Cornelius and the Gentiles. In the same way, I hope that our ecumenical engagement does not just enrich us theologically by giving us new perspectives and paradigms. I hope it also leads to lasting friendships and network so that what began here at TST becomes the foundation for a lifelong journey of learning, connection, and shared faith as theologians and leaders.
And of course, navigating these relationships won't always be easy. Engaging deeply with different tradition means encountering disagreements, misunderstandings and even discomfort. But this is precisely where epistemological humility is most needed. It required us to approach differences with curiosity, rather than defensiveness, with a willingness to be challenged rather than simply affirmed, or worse, disengaging altogether. Dr. David Augsburger, who passed away two years ago, who used to be my mentor, and who taught pastoral counseling at Fuller Theological Seminary, wrote this in his book, Caring Enough to Confront and this is his quote: “of course I differ from you. To differ is not to reject. Sometimes I disagree with you. To disagree is not to attack. When necessary, I will confront you. To confront is to compliment. When confronting, our first connect to confront. Well, we must first connect when it matters, I will invite change. To change is to grow. We can go through conflicts, and confrontation is a healthy part. So let's explore where we differ and compliment if we agree on everything one of us is unnecessary.” May we walk this ecumenical journey with humility, openness and a willingness to be transformed by the Spirit and each other. Amen.
[John Borthwick]
Thanks for joining us today on the Ministry Forum Podcast. We hope today's episode resonated with you and sparked your curiosity. Remember, you're not alone in your ministry journey. We're at the other end of some form of technology, and our team is committed to working hard to support your ministry every step of the way. If you enjoyed today's episode, tell your friends, your family, your colleagues. Tell someone. Please don't keep us a secret, and of course, please subscribe, rate and leave a review in the places you listen to podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach more ministry leaders just like you, and honestly, it reminds us that we're not alone either. And don't forget to follow us on social media, at Ministry Forum on all of our channels. You can visit our website@ministryforum.ca for more resources, keeping up with upcoming events and ways to connect with our growing community. Until next time, may God's strength and courage be yours in all that you do. May you be fearless, not reckless, and may you be well in body, mind and spirit, and may you be that peace.