Reconciliation in Practice: Stories from the 1% Spiritual Covenant
In this special conversation, we hear from Mennonite congregations who have signed onto the 1% Spiritual Covenant (committing one percent of their annual budgets to Indigenous-led organizations as an act of repair and reconciliation).
Leaders share the long journeys that led their churches to this decision, the questions and challenges they faced, and the surprising ways generosity has deepened community life. The episode explores what it means to release control, re-tell our histories, and take small but Spirit-led steps toward justice. Their stories invite all of us to consider: what does faithful reparation look like in our own context.
Guests From This Episode
Jonathan Neufeld & Elsie Rempel from Charleswood Mennonite Church, Winnipeg
Pat Manske from Stirling Avenue Mennonite Church, Kitchener
Esther Epp-Tiessen & Judith Friesen Epp from Home Street Mennonite Church, Winnipeg
Additional Resources:
Mennonite churches donate 1% of budget to Indigenous groups - Winnipeg Free Press Article
Decolonizing Wealth: Indigenous Wisdom to Heal Divides and Restore Balance by Edgar Villanueva
Learn More About Strawberry Communion
Follow us on Social:
Transcript
[Introduction]
Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast coming to you from the Center for Lifelong Learning at Knox College. Where we connect, encourage and resource ministry leaders across Canada as they seek to thrive in their passion to share the gospel. I am your host, the Reverend John Borthwick, Director of the Center and curator of all that is ministryforum.ca.
I absolutely love that I get to do what I get to do, and most of all that I get to share it with all of you. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to give us a listen. Whether you're a seasoned ministry leader or just beginning your journey, this podcast is made with you in mind.
[John Borthwick]
Welcome to the Ministry Forum Podcast. This week, we're talking to representatives from churches that have signed on to the 1% spiritual covenant. Don't know what I'm talking about? Then you must have not attended our Creative Ways: Being Church Today Conference held in Hamilton, Ontario on June first, where Adrian Jacobs shared beautifully about this collaborative and prophetic work that he's been advocating for as a step towards greater reconciliation between Indigenous communities and the church.
Our guests today will help us understand the 1% spiritual covenant better. They'll also speak about the journey that their congregations embarked upon to get there, how it's been going, and what insights they learned along the way. We're so very grateful to have representatives from Charleswood and Home Street Mennonite churches in Winnipeg, Manitoba and Sterling Mennonite Church in Kitchener, Ontario. We reached out to Hope Mennonite in Winnipeg, but they weren't able to join us for this conversation.
It is interesting that, from what we know, only four congregations across Canada have signed on to the 1% spiritual covenant, and from what we know, all of them are Mennonite, and three of the four are in the City of Winnipeg. Perhaps we'll speak a bit about that reality today in our conversation with our guests.
Before I begin, I want to acknowledge that I'm recording from Treaty Three Territory in the province of Ontario, Haldimand track, the traditional territories of the Attawandaron, the Mississaugas, the Anishinaabe and the Haudenosaunee peoples.
Welcome, everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your stories and inspire our Ministry Forum community to learn more about the 1% Spiritual Covenant. We've got about five of you on the podcast today. I wonder if we could start - maybe introduce yourself a little bit, tell us about the congregation that you're representing, and your role in that congregation, and your participation in the 1%
Spiritual Covenant. Perhaps we could start with Elsie.
[Elsie Rempel]
I attend and I'm a member of Charleswood Mennonite church. I had just become council chair when we were deciding to get involved with the spiritual covenant, and it was actually the first proposal that I drafted as council chair. I'm no longer in that role, but that's how I'm participating in this conversation.
[John Borthwick]
That's great. Elsie, welcome. Thank you so much. And let's talk to Pat.
[Pat Manske]
Hi. I'm Pat Manske from Stirling Avenue Mennonite, and my role is, I'm part of a small, it's getting smaller, spiritual covenant working group that was appointed by the church council in 2020 and so, our journey to the spiritual covenant started much before that, as you'll hear, but this small group has been working at carrying out the spiritual covenant since 2020, and I've had various roles at the church, but right now I'm on this committee.
[John Borthwick]
Lovely. Welcome, Pat. And Jonathan, hello.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
Jonathan Neufeld from Charleswood Mennonite Church. I'm actually bi-vocational. I am a co-pastor at Charleswood Mennonite Church, and I work half-time for Mennonite Church Canada as the Indigenous Relations Coordinator for the national church. I have the privilege of participating in national, regional conversations, as well as forking at it, sort of boots on the ground on a congregational level. I came to the congregation two years ago and joined their Indigenous solidarity Committee, which is the group that holds the question about whom to partner with in the 1% and so we've been in that discernment together, and that's what brings me here.
[John Borthwick]
Awesome. Jonathan, thanks. And Esther.
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
I'm a member of Home Street Mennonite, and I'm also a member of our indigenous settler relations group, which we informally call the ISRG. And we formed as a group in 2016 right after the release of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and its 94 calls to action. We came together because we were really inspired by the vision and the call of the TRC, and we wanted to be a part of this wind of this Holy Spirit moving across our land and our work on what we call reparations. That's the language we've used. It emerged out of that group, and it was our group that sort of led the process through our church council. I should say the church council led the process with the congregation, but we were the group that brought forward the proposals and so on.
[John Borthwick]
Wonderful, great to meet you and Judith.
[Judith Friesen Epp]
I'm one of the co-pastors at Home Street Mennonite Church, where Esther is also from. I was part of that indigenous settler relations group in our congregation for a while and I have needed to sort of give my work energies elsewhere. So that group did some of the heavy lifting in terms of developing the proposal for reparations in our congregation. I was part of the leadership council who helped guide that process with the congregation.
[John Borthwick]
Excellent. Wow. Well, thanks for joining us from various parts of the country. In Canada, on election day is when we're recording, so that's kind of fun as well.
We don't have enough time to hear from every single person on this, but I wonder if maybe one or two of you could tell us a little bit more about how you came to hear of the spiritual covenant, and maybe share a little bit more about what is it in particular that it's inviting a church to consider or to do? Go ahead, Pat.
[Pat Manske]
We started this journey 17 years ago, recognizing the Truro Wampum Treaties with the purpose of coexisting peacefully. Adrian Jacobs was involved 17 years ago in coming to our church and educating us on the treaties. And at that time, the spiritual covenant wasn't in the works, but just more of an educational kind of role. We were invited to recognize indigenous jurisdiction over lands, and we wanted to make annual symbolic lease payments or reparation payments, and if possible consider land transfer of the churches decommissioned in the future and we hope to invite other people to follow along with the symbolic lease payment.
[John Borthwick]
Excellent. Okay, go ahead, Elsie.
[Elsie Rempel]
I think I'd like to go a little bit into the backstory. Adrian invited us to do this in 2018. Winnipeg is a city that has a very high percentage of indigenous people, higher than most, and we as a Mennonite Church in Manitoba have a long history of connecting with certain native First Nations, or we called them reserves at the time, and church planting, that started in back in 1945. It was colonial in the way that most missions were, but there were also people of integrity with a holistic view that developed very deep and authentic relationships, and that eventually morphed into a settler relations group. Mennonite Central Committee took it on for a while, and then it became part of Mennonite Church Canada
There were relationships between congregations and these communities. We would get together for bridge builder events, with annual conferences, where people would come down from the North, from the First Nations, and we would meet and learn together and fellowship and develop relationships.
There were two individuals I can think of who were particularly important. The one was a very quiet kind of man, a biblical scholar and ethicist, Dr. David Schrader. He died about maybe 10 years ago. He was very close to Stan McKay, who became the moderator of the United Church of Canada for a while, and is now an elder and is now practicing indigenous spirituality more than Christianity, but a very big leader here in Manitoba.
The other one was Mano Wiib, who started off as a Pax man, working with indigenous people in Paraguay as a young man. He's also died. He would have been about 90 by now, I think if he were still alive. He got very close to the indigenous people. He became a real activist in our midst. When the Oka crisis happened, he was called upon to be a mediator. They said he was the white man with an indigenous heart. He had a huge influence, and he was a member of our congregation, as was Dr. David Schrader. Those kinds of things helped to shape an attitude towards activism and justice issues. Then our assistant pastor before, or co-pastor before we hired Jonathan, Jeff Friesen. He was involved with the Shoal Lake 44 activity to help get clean water to the place that Winnipeg has been drawing its clean water from for the last 100 years. There was a lot of enthusiasm and interest in our congregation. Members of our church also participated in the Truth and Reconciliation events and so on. There was interest and general knowledge.
When Jeff invited Adrian to speak and he encouraged us to do this, it seemed a very natural thing to move forward with. We established the proposal and had a consensus event with that as our test piece. And it grew into a proposal which was accepted with a unanimous sense of, yes, this is a good way we can respond. We signed on in 2022. That's our church story.
[John Borthwick]
That's amazing. Elsie. I love that there's a lot of background of the journey towards relationship building. It wasn't just something that dropped out of the sky all of a sudden.
Esther, there was an email conversation back and forth, and you had mentioned making a distinction for our audience, between those who are in Winnipeg and those who are in Kitchener-Waterloo, which is very close to where I come from, Guelph, just around the Haldimand track. And maybe Pat could speak about it as well? But Esther, did you want to speak into this differentiation around what the spiritual covenant is actually inviting? What might it be inviting some churches into to do?
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
Well, yes, Adrian, brought forward that proposal for the spiritual covenant quite a few years ago, maybe 15 years ago, or maybe Pat maybe 17 years ago? It was a specific invitation to the to the churches that were on Six Nations land in southern Ontario, in the Haldimand Tract. To invite the churches to make a covenant with the Six Nations. We are not part of Six Nations. We are on Treaty One territory in Manitoba. We have not signed on in a formal way, however, but we have been very much shaped by it and inspired by it, and inspired by the vision that Adrian brought forward. He influenced us very much.
He was living in Winnipeg for quite a few years. He spoke to Charleswood, and he also came and did a teaching session with our congregation that helped us in along our journey. Then he acted as a consultant for us.
If I could just add a little bit to what Elsie said, we, too at Home Street have benefited from that broader legacy of the people that that Elsie mentioned within the Mennonite community here in Manitoba. We've also been influenced very much by our location. We have an old church building, very close to downtown, as Elsie mentioned. Winnipeg has a high indigenous population, about 12% of the population, and they're primarily located in downtown. We rub shoulders regularly. That's very much part of the reality of our neighborhood.
About 15 years ago or so, the Church, our congregation, began a Sunday morning coffee ministry for anybody who wanted to come by for coffee and sandwiches and conversation for an hour and a half every Sunday morning. And that continues every Sunday. Most of the people who come are indigenous people, and so we have developed quite close relationships with some of them, the regular ones, and they have provided a window for us into the indigenous experience, into the impact of centuries of settler colonialism, the impact of theft of land and culture and identity and language. And how the impact of intergenerational trauma continue through the generations and that experience has informed us as a congregation and prepared the ground for us and the development of our ISRG, our indigenous settler relations group and this reparations proposal. Judith, do you want to add anything to that?
[Judith Friesen Epp]
Only that, I think that the conversation around tables in our basement every week made us aware of the hard work of interpersonal relationships, and also systemic work. The journey towards paying reparations was part of the attempt to address the systemic work, while we chatted around the tables as well, and in a personal ministry.
[John Borthwick]
I think that's an important thing to note for folks, I've heard it within our Presbyterian context, that we have several ministries within the city of Winnipeg, reaching out and supporting and doing outreach work and in-reach work with indigenous communities in Winnipeg. What I've heard you say, you who all live in Winnipeg, is that there is a large population of indigenous people visible in Winnipeg, more than perhaps in a city of like Toronto. In a city like Guelph, there wouldn't be a sense of that. There's this invisible sense of homelessness or people experiencing mental health crises in different communities, but there's not always a connection point of that a high percentage of those individuals may be indigenous. People are not aware of those who are building relationships and supporting indigenous communities in this very specific way.
Did anyone want to speak about how you might have introduced this initiative to your congregation? I'd be curious to know more about what the response was like, or were there any particular challenges when you brought this to your congregations? Were there surprises as to how people responded or have continued to respond? I'm sure this comes up. I assume it comes up on every annual meeting. Anyone want to talk about how this conversation continues to evolve?
[Elsie Rempel]
The questions we got were: what kind of controls would we have? Which projects would we give this money to? Jonathan has done good work with us, and I think it's time for him to say where it moved forward in our congregation.
[John Borthwick]
Jonathan, you've been invited in.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
I think we probably all have this in common, we probably received similar kinds of questions, and some of the pushback, not even pushback. That's not the right word, but the questions that people ask are: do we decide ahead of time, before budgeting, where the money's going to go, so that people are actually voting on where it's going, rather than just a blank check to be determined? We've had to work as a committee to identify who the repair partners will be and then it can be included in our annual budget. People want to know where the money is going.
I haven't heard this so much in my congregation, but I have heard it in context of other congregations: do we know how the money will be spent? I don't know how to talk about that any other way. Our posture as a committee in the church has been to practice open-handed giving. I think that's the most important part of this - we are not telling the recipient of the funds where or how it should be spent. That is not our place, that's not our role, nor are we asking for financial reporting back. If, in the context of relationship, there is some storytelling about what the finances ended up supporting, then that's fantastic, but it's not an expectation and nor an obligation.
I've been very much influenced by Esther and the posture of Home Street, in how I understand their process of distributing money is that they go into the relationship spaces where money is being handed over and are very clear about saying that this is not a donation, but that this is a this is a gesture of money that is owed.
This last month, when several members of our committee went to our repair partner, Clan Mothers Healing Village, and when we said that very specific phrase: we're bringing this not as a donation, but as a gesture of what is owed. I can't even describe the feeling in the room. The response of the staff and the directors and the elders who were in the room, they just breathed out together a “miigwech”; that was a message.
[John Borthwick]
Yeah, that's powerful. Jonathan, thank you, Pat, did you want to add something into that?
[Pat Manske]
Yeah. I wanted to say that we, our group, wanted very clearly to see this as a reparation payment. We wanted no ownership of where the money was going, because that is more colonialism. Adrian helped set up a fund at the Six Nation Polytechnic, and so our lease payment goes there. We don't know how the money is used, and it's not in our place to ask.
It was very important to us that we had no control over what was going to happen with the lease payment.
[John Borthwick]
It's always been fascinating to me in those conversations, because I've seen within the denomination I serve that we do slip into the colonizer mindset, right? Where we're thinking: if we're going to give this money, then there should be some accountability, and there needs to be reporting and so on. I'm loving what you're sharing. I love that posture and the approach that you're doing in making these connections.
Anyone want to add anything else to this? I was also wondering about if, in this process of seeking out partners or seeking out those who might be the recipients, has it opened some doors for conversations or new relationships?
[Judith Friesen Epp]
About the previous point about releasing control, one of the very interesting conversations we had at Home Street Mennonite Church, was: whether our desire to have a relationship with the organizations to which we give, was also a colonial posture? As good intended as it was, we wondered if saying we're going to give you money and now we expect you to relate to us, was also colonial. We struggled a lot with that, because we also recognize the value of relationships with indigenous peoples and organizations. Our indigenous settler relations group really did some good work in in framing it as: we are open to relationship. If that feels good to you, but it is not an expected obligation in this giving. We pondered that for a long time.
[John Borthwick]
I really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. Jonathan.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
That's helpful to say, Judith, because I know in many of these contexts where resources are being exchanged and shared, they can be done in a way that extracts the energy from the organization that is receiving it, and it becomes one more obligation on already long list of difficult work and important work that's happening. We do not want to be a distraction and a consumer of energy in coming alongside in solidarity. I appreciate you mentioning that: this is what we're open to, but not demanding it. This isn't a pathway to finding new best friends and the expectation of that is unfair.
[John Borthwick]
Absolutely, and it may be that there could be a lot of baggage around whether one would want to be friends with us, with our history and all those things. What I'm hearing from you, there's a careful discernment process in the journey towards doing any of this kind of work. It's not as simple as in my context, it would be someone making a motion at an annual meeting that we just do this and then it's just done. It sounds like you're taking it very seriously, which means it takes more time and that there's people in the room who are willing to do the courageous step of pressing pause and saying, hey, what are we expecting? Or what do our words mean? I think that's a beautiful gift of what I'm bearing witness to in the conversation.
Anyone want to speak to the time you've invested, or the time you've had to take? Or have you had to step back and say, oh no, I think we've overstepped, or we need to give some more thought to this?
[Pat Manske]
In our congregation, I mean, 17 years is a long time, but we weren't working the entire time. We did have a pause. We have the fortunate benefit of having a mission and peace and justice worker who's paid by our church. Laura is currently in that role, but we had someone named Josie Winterfeld in the in the role for 17 years. She worked very hard. I don't think we would be where we are right now without having Josie spearhead the project and keep it alive, even though we had a pause. She brought it back when the congregation was ready to receive more. We did lots of education, and pursued lots of faith formation time. It was a journey, and we've only started our lease payment a year ago.
[John Borthwick]
That's excellent. Now, all of you are Mennonites, and I'm a Presbyterian. I'm just curious in this conversation, but is there something about Mennonites? Is this the reason you signed on to this? I mean, you can celebrate being Mennonite. My Presbyterians will be okay with it. It's fine. Is there something about being Mennonite that has made you want to be a part of this? A part of your culture, a part of who you are as churches? How would you want to respond to that?
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
I think Elsie spoke to that when she laid out that broader context, and the history of the influence of some key people. I'm also aware United churches and other mainline denomination churches that are engaged in a reparations initiative. I think Adrian has been close to some Mennonite churches and has put this spiritual covenant proposal toward them. I know that the issue of reparations is part of a larger movement that other churches are involved in, so I wouldn't play up the Mennonite thing.
[Pat Manske]
I would agree with that. We've been a part of a webcast talking about this lease payment, and suddenly people are reaching out to us. We've been part of a Mennonite Anglican dialog. They're not officially doing lease payments, but there are a lot of other things, as Esther said,
in terms of doing a covenant by either giving land or by selling land and using some of the funds and providing educational funds. Even though we're all Mennonite, there are lots of other churches doing things as well.
[John Borthwick]
I knew it'd be hard to make Mennonites toot their own horn. I knew that would be difficult.
[Pat Manske]
Adrian Jacobs, who is helping us, is part of the Christian Reformed Church, and they are not Mennonite.
[John Borthwick]
I appreciate that. Jonathan.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
In some conversations, though it is named, that there's a different directionality or a different point of entry into these conversations about reparations. The conversation that's happening in denominations that were named parties to the residential school settlement, versus the churches that were not named parties that are coming in from a different perspective, that is different. There's a little bit more of a movement within Mennonite circles to do this on a congregational level, with more autonomy and less directives within our within our polity, and this allows for churches to respond in the Spirit and not need agreement or permission, so I think our polity has helped us on this.
We're also people of the land. Most of our ancestors would have come to the east territories as farmers connected to those seasons of life and rituals of community that I think have been a point of conversation and connection with treaty as it is talked about, particularly in these parts of Canada, maybe not so much treaty based conversation out east or further out west. I think that matters.
[Elsie Rempel]
We have tilled the soil, and perhaps because we've displaced ourselves more than once in our history, that makes us a little bit more open to these kinds of conversations and movements.
[John Borthwick]
I love that. Elsie. The experience of displacement maybe brings more alignment, for sure. For Presbyterians who are listening, I'd be remiss if I didn't say, we support the indigenous ministries that are connected to the Presbyterian Church in Canada, quite significantly. There's been funds that have been set aside by the national office of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, and congregations invited to join into this.
I think what's unique about this, and maybe Jonathan, you picked up on the idea of a congregation specifically deciding to create a reparation payment or a lease payment, and that 1% from their resources to an indigenous partner ministry. I think that's really unique.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
When I came into this conversation, I was in pastoral ministry in Seattle, Washington for 15 years before coming here, and there was a well established reparations fund that the church participated in there. I was bringing that background with me when I returned to Canada. One of the pieces that was formative for us as a congregation was the writing in the book: Decolonizing Wealth. If I were to point people towards a read that might inspire the conversation, that would be it. It talks about the responsibility of white or settler congregations to participate in the great fund shifting that is needed to move monies towards BIPOC led organizations, because our prejudice is to support organizations and movements that we know, are connected to, or related to. It takes a concentrated discernment to move out of the relational way that money moves in philanthropic and donation circles, and move outside of the people that look like us. Yes, this is part of that work, and it's important work to move money out of places of saturation and abundance to organizations that don't have relational connectedness to intergenerational wealth. Let's talk about it. Until diverse communities have intergenerational access, it is incumbent upon us who have that privilege to move money.
[John Borthwick]
Yeah, I appreciate that and all the things. Yes, Esther, go ahead.
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
I want to go back a little bit to our congregational process, and this connects with what some of what Jonathan was saying. It was important, and is still important for our congregation to be knowing the history of how the land has been unjustly taken, and stolen from indigenous peoples. Part of our learning process was to do some teaching around that, how was that land stolen? We began by talking about the land being stolen and people said, What? What do you mean? How can you say it was stolen? Or, well, yes, maybe it was taken, but we're not responsible for that, we weren't there at the time. Part of the process needed to be understanding some of the history, which is a history that most of us had not learned prior and it's huge.
We also did a little study of the land, exactly where our church building sits. It was really informative and compelling. But the larger story is, it’s all of Manitoba and most of Canada. People need to know that story, because it’s the basis for settler wealth and that's what we need to come to terms with, and that's what we need to take responsibility for. That’s another important part of the congregational process.
[Judith Friesen Epp]
We were fortunate to have a historian like Esther, who went into the archives, and wrote a paper for us on the history of the tract of land that our church sits on. We had to come to terms with the very particular history of the land where we worshiped each Sunday.
Another of the challenges in the larger historical story was that in a congregation where many of us are second, third generation Canadians, that the story of immigration is still very much with us. The narration of our story went something like, well, we came to this land very poor, and look how hard we worked, and look we made a life for ourselves, right? We've had to also re-narrate the way we've told our family and cultural histories to understand the kinds of privilege we were given coming to this land and the kind of theft that was involved in our coming. To retell that story, and people are doing such good work on that now, like the Healing Haunted Histories book that's out, is just such a great resource. For us to personally start to re-narrate our family histories was also very important.
[John Borthwick]
The language of the church, for example, a church building is closing, and there's conversations around returning this church building, which is part of, I think, of the spiritual covenant for the Haldimand tract, the idea of returning it to the indigenous peoples. The conversation within churches that I've heard is: those people in that church, that church was there for 150 years, and all those people gave money and they supported that church, and this is totally disrespectful to those people who did all this. Then, some would say, you wouldn't have been able to put that church there without the fact that the land was stolen. There was theft there, there was generational wealth, there was all the things and the privileges that were there and sometimes that's a hard conversation to get peoples’ heads wrapped around. Some churches have been around for 190, 200 years, and there's a sense of, this is our place now. Decolonizing work needs to happen within the church and within Canada.
What a gift, Esther, to be able to do that so specifically for the church land, for your community, that's an amazing thing to have that true sense of where your land was taken from. We do land acknowledgements in different spaces and places, but it becomes unconnected. I'm hearing from indigenous peoples that we need to make it way more personal. It should be you speaking about how you're acknowledging the land yourself in the space that you're in, as opposed to these general ones that city halls are doing. It seems like we do them all the time, and they become rote in a way that doesn't feel genuine.
Almost all of you have signed on to land repayment in the last year or two or three years?
[Jonathan Neufeld]
This is the second year of our disbursement of funds. The decision would have been made before that, so that’s where we're at in terms of that commitment.
[John Borthwick]
All within a year or two or three, not very long. I want to celebrate the fact that your congregations are doing this. Is one of the conversations that happens around how financially stable a congregation might be? In many churches, like the Presbyterian Church in Canada, they are experiencing decline, and feel like they don’t have 1% of our budget to give, when they’re trying to keep the lights on. Is that a conversation at all?
[Jonathan Neufeld]
I was a part of another organization that was building up a reparations conversation. I remember it was a scrappy, little nonprofit that we were starting, was working in solidarity with indigenous needs in the United States. We decided at one point, for every dollar that was donated to our work, 60% of it went directly to an indigenous organization to support repair, and 40% helped the work of our organization. Now that's a that's a pretty big number in terms of percentage wise, but then we experienced our donations go through the roof. In other words, if people know that there's money going directly to places of significance and need and importance, that's actually inspiring, and I think there's more money coming in as a result of generousity and the sense that we aren't just in this for ourselves, and that we have a strong financial reparations and commitment. I think that matters. I would suspect that our years to come will continue to feel financially generous, because we are not constricting ourselves in
financially strained times.
[Pat Manske]
I would say Stirling is a very thriving community because we have done these outreach projects. We have a homes committee as well. We're looking into doing affordable housing. I agree with Jonathan. The year we made the lease payment, I believe we did not make our budget, but we knew the support was there. It’s been 17 years in the making. Let's do something. So we did it. We made our budget this year.
We have a very young congregation. We're attracting a lot of young families and people who are interested in looking beyond the church itself and being involved in other issues. Even though it seems like a strain on the budget, it's a plus to encourage involvement.
[Judith Friesen Epp]
It took us years to get a budget line in the budget, Esther and the indigenous settler relations group worked on that very hard. The first time was in 2024 that it went into our budget. At the same time this year, we're looking at replacing our entire heating system and looking at a huge price tag. As the conversation went on this year, no one brought up the reparations line and said, we should reconsider that. I'm hoping it will become in our budget line as automatic as paying the heating bill and turning the lights on. That it's seen as critical It's such a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things. It really is a gesture, but still a very important one. That's our hope, that it will just become ingrained and sort of indispensable. I do think when we make commitments like that, it encourages people to get involved.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
By way of information, our thinking around the operations, the organizations that we are moving money towards, that we would commit to doing it for three years in a row, no questions asked, and then revisit it. Then we might extend it or shift. I'm wondering if other congregations have some imagination around sort of length of time? Or is it always an indefinite commitment to a particular organization? I'm wondering how we will deal with the length of our commitment in the next few years.
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
Our commitment is three years. We said to two organizations, this is our commitment to you for three years, and then we'll have a conversation. Not sure at all what that will look like at this point, because we're still in the early years of the relationship.
[Pat Manske]
Initially, ours would be indefinite. We have not done a three year cap or anything, because it's going to Polytechnique. We figure it's a neutral catch point for the funds, so it's not going to a specific organization. We haven't visited changing that in any way.
[John Borthwick]
It's feeling to me, from a theological lens, a sense of the first fruits, or a sense of a biblical tithe; this is just something we do. As you said, Jonathan, any dollar that comes in, part of the dollar is going out. I'm sure that happens in a variety of different iterations in your churches already, but specifically around the repairs, where it becomes like the heating bill, only more meaningful. It’s beautiful
I wonder as we, as we wrap up today, is there a call to action each of you would want to offer to those who are listening today? You could encourage or inspire other church congregations to make this kind of commitment? I'll open the floor to all of you to share something to inspire our audience today.
[Jonathan Neufeld]
Well, I've been inspired by listening into the conversation at Nate's an indigenous learning community. At their last symposium, they put forward their definition of decolonization, not as oppression, hunting or seeking out guilt or responsibility, but to find the places in your community where indigenous organizations and communities are thriving and then come behind and beside and alongside that thriving. I think this is one of the ways you can do that you can one of the benefits of our congregation, seeing an indigenous women-led organization in our city as a place to give our reparations money, is just a way of saying, we see you, we see the great work you are doing and we want to support that. It's a way of celebrating the good and coming alongside the good and the blessed and the peace that is already happening.
[Pat Manske]
There are a growing number of networks across Canada, and getting involved in some of those webinars and so on, like the Anglican-Mennonite dialog, and there are other ones. Laura is more familiar with that, who unfortunately couldn't get in because of internet issues today. Our congregation kind of got stuck on the land reparation for a while, so once we focused more on the lease payment, people were on board with it, that was something they could get behind. If there's a sticking point, maybe find something else you can latch onto, so you can do a reparation.
[Judith Friesen Epp]
I would reiterate what Jonathan said earlier, that in terms of making repair, money has to change hands, wealth has to be redistributed. That's part of the equation. This is a really small step towards that. And then when we talked about the high indigenous population in Manitoba and Winnipeg specifically, that gives us a close look at colonial harm. It also gives us a close look at indigenous wisdom and leadership and when we empower, by offering no strings attached money, what a gift they give. Right? When we give indigenous leadership space to rise and to lead us, that is healing for us too, and that is a tremendous gift of reparations as well.
[John Borthwick]
Thanks, Esther. You get the final word.
[Esther Epp-Tiessen]
This is a journey, so we don't know where it will lead. Maybe down the road there will be a different call, or maybe we will be called to give much more than 1%. We don't know, but at this point, it feels like we've been part of a movement that is Spirit led, and that's, yeah, that's a gift. We encourage and invite other congregations to catch the wind of this movement.
[John Borthwick]
Thanks, Esther. Is there anything that anybody feels you really needed to share that you didn't get a chance to share before we wrap up?
[Pat Manske]
I want to highlight the Strawberry Thanksgiving and Communion that was held for the first time with our church and a number of other churches who were interested. It's in June; I can send you the link. We held it at Six Nations last year, but this year they're doing renovations. At the Polytechnique auditorium, so it'll be at Rockway Mennonite school. Anyone is invited to come. And now, obviously, if you're in Winnipeg, that's a little hard, but it's a great time. Last year, we presented our lease payment at this Thanksgiving get together, and it was very meaningful. It's something we want to do every year.
[John Borthwick]
Beautiful, and there may be things that happen in Winnipeg that good folks from Ontario might want to check out. Ways in which the communities are exchanging and sharing the joy of being in relationship and on a journey together, connecting in this way, and learning from each other, and from our elders.
I want to thank all of you for joining me today. The folks that get to hear you all have heard Adrian before. There'll be a bunch of folks that Adrian will be completely new for them. We're looking forward to having our conference on June 1, and hoping that he will continue to inspire, as he's inspired so many of you.
We look forward to this being a bonus for our Creative Ways Conference attendees, so they can learn a little more, and hopefully they can connect with you. Our show notes will include ways to connect with churches like yourselves, because you are a resource to other churches, and an inspiration for the work you're doing.
Thank you so much for joining me on the Ministry Forum podcast today. I appreciate your willingness to share your stories, the thoughtfulness that you brought to this and the beauty of your congregations as they engage in this journey together.
Thanks for joining us today on the Ministry Forum podcast. We hope today's episode resonated with you and sparked your curiosity. Remember, you're not alone in your ministry journey. We're at the other end of some form of technology, and our team is committed to working hard to support your ministry every step of the way. If you enjoyed today's episode, tell your friends, your family, your colleagues. Tell Someone, please don't keep us a secret, and of course, please subscribe, rate and leave a review in the places you listen to podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach more ministry leaders just like you, and honestly, it reminds us that we're not alone either, and don't forget to follow us on social media: @ministryforum, on all channels. You can visit our website: ministryforum.ca for more resources, keep up with upcoming events and ways to connect with our growing community. Until next time, may God's strength and courage be yours in all that you do. May you be fearless, not reckless, and may you be well in body, mind and spirit and may you be at peace.